‘Male, Female Or X’

at

From top: Taoiseach Leo Varadkar at Dublin Gay Pride in 2017; Irish passport

This morning.

Via Independent.ie:

In the report drafted by Fine Gael’s LGBT committee, it is recommended these children should be free to legally self-declare their gender.

The committee, which includes Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, also said laws need to be changed to allow all children under 16 to change their gender with parental approval.

It recommends that the next government should allow people who do not consider themselves either male or female to be permitted to mark X on their passports.

This would mean Irish passports would have three gender categories – male, female and X.

The policy paper also calls for changes to the Road Traffic Act to allow for the introduction of rainbow-coloured pedestrian crossings.

Children under 16 will be able to change gender under FG plan (Independent.ie)

Rollingnews

139 thoughts on “‘Male, Female Or X’

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      I saw one in Gozo a few years back. The colours were in blocks widthways and it was very fetching.

    2. Jockey

      “Why did the chicken cross the road?” is a widely misunderstood joke.

      “To get to the other side” actually refers to the afterlife. The answer having 2 opposite meanings (To cross safely and also to die in the process) is actually the joke, however over time the simplicity of one meaning has become the joke.

      There you go now.

      Anyways, I’m all for rainbow coloured crossings. It might help the chicken reconsider things.

    3. Gabby

      @millie in handcuffs: Lucky pedestrians might discover leprechauns with crocks of gold at the end of rainbow crossings.

      1. millie von strumpet

        If they do, I hope they cut me in on the findings. Found myself rummaging down the back of the sofa for milk money this morning.

        1. Bertie Theodore Alphege Blenkinsop

          Hmmmm…
          have you ever seen “Indecent Proposal”?
          I may have a plan….

          1. Bertie Theodore Alphege Blenkinsop

            It’s a million Turkish lira but the premise is the same.

  1. fluffybiscuits

    The literature I have read on transitioning before the age of 16 says it should be done to avoid the complications of puberty. If psychologists are fine with it then I cant argue, I just worry that a lot of kids are emotionally immature to make such a big decision.

    Rainbow pedestrian crossings are a great idea

    1. Nigel

      We don’t withold life-altering medical procedures from under-sixteens just because of their age (unless there are actual medical reasons to wait unti a certain stage of development is reached.) That isn’t to say that there aren’t plenty of worries around those procedures, but those should be left to the patients, their families, if supportive, and their medical professionals, not turned into ammo for savage culture war clashes, which are only ever going to make things worse for those trying to make the best possible decisions for the situations they’re in.

      1. Clampers Outside

        “their families, if supportive”

        You do realise that makes no sense, then again… I doubt you do.

        1. Nigel

          It only makes sense if you acknowledge that some young trans people might be in family situations that are hostile or abusive and/or transphobic. That’s all I meant by that. Try to be kind.

          1. Clampers Outside

            That is very, very different to what you had written, truth be told.

            It is that approach, that one is only being “supportive” of a child who is confused if you activy engage in running with their confusion rather than look at the reasons behind it that a large number of psychologists and psychotherapists (10+ last I read) left the gender dysphoria clinic (GID I think it iscalked) in the UK in protest over the active “support” in encouraging transition rather than an impartial and professional medical examination of individual cases.

            This is the result of placing ideology above patient care. And it is dangerous as well as completely ignorant.

          2. Nigel

            ‘Supportive’ in terms of caring for young people has only ever meant trying to do what’s best for the young person and listening to them and respecting them and that you thought otherwise is entirely down to your own preconceptions and toxic obsession with this supposed ‘ideology.’

          3. Clampers Outside

            It is not a ‘supposed’ ideology, and has been proven to be a big problem if you’d even bother to read official reports and /or testimonies of young women and men who have been through that unprofessional system.
            Google detransition stories and you’ll find plenty of angry young women and men who have been permanently damaged.

            Language is important, learn to use it correctly.

    2. SOQ

      What bothers me is that in the past, if you were a bit camp or swishy as a teen then the default assumption was that you were gay- bit of a stereotype but anyways- now the default assumption appears to be that you are trans which is actually quite homophobic.

      Now you can change you mind on your sexuality or even what gender you would prefer to be but once you go down the road of treatments, you are permanently altering your body, which is something only adults should be allowed to do.

      Otherwise, you could get into this emerging de-transitioning legal mess because young people were not given objective support and the adults responsible failed in their duty of care.

    3. Roisin Lawless

      I agree. Children are not capable of making those decisions. Life long medication and oft times unsuccessful surgery should only be embarked upon by adults. More and more detransitioners are coming out to say they were never given alternative diagnoses of their autism, ocd or other mental illnesses, but were pushed straight onto hormones which have the abiltiy to render children sterile. This rush to transition is relatively new and should be scrutinised before increasing numbers of children are damaged irrevocably.

      1. Nigel

        And of curse you both jumped to the most bad-faith least charitable conclusion. i’ve clarified and I’m not going to get into it with you about this today. Be kind.

        1. Clampers Outside

          Not bad faith, but following from your past record on this issue… plus, see response above.

  2. Daisy Chainsaw

    I honestly don’t understand why gender is necessary on forms, especially a passport. Once my picture matches my face, why do they need to know about my genitals?

      1. Clampers Outside

        Isn’t that at odds with the demands that TRAs make for them to be acknowledged by the use of a plethora of specific new pronouns….

    1. Harry

      Gender seems almost meaningless now so I would agree.

      I do think it important that sex is recorded on a birth cert though.

  3. Chuckenstein

    It’s the zebras that I feel sorry for. They’re next and they don’t know it.

  4. broadbag

    If I’m pulled aside at airport security and have marked ‘X’ as my gender, and outwardly I appear to be male, but I think I’m female, does this mean a female security person then has to frisk me (even though it may make her uncomfortable to do so)?

    1. Clampers Outside

      Ask Nigel, he’s a Self ID advocate. I believe his answer will be that the female security officer will have to do the check. That is if he is to be consistent in his advocacy.

        1. broadbag

          That’s an insane idea, doubt that would be cost effective, or that there’s enough trans people to man all the airports in the world, but okay Nigel!

          1. broadbag

            Hiring trans people purely because they are trans is discriminatory and probably illegal, not to mention the logistical problems I outlined above, but feel free to try to shut down all debate as is your modus operandi when comments go against you.

          2. Nigel

            Since you’d be hiring trans people to fulfil a specific function – along with their other duties, – i don’t see how it can be discriminatory. Trans peple exist. Trans people need jobs, like the rest of us. So much for logistics.

          3. Cian

            by that logic you would need a team of trans employees – both pre-and-post surgery and both M2F and F2M; that’s a minimum of 4 – available 24/7;

            I can’t think of any logistical issues with that.

          4. Nigel

            He posed a hypothetical problem, I proposed a hypothetical solution. Arguing it’s logistically impossible to have multiple trans people in a workforce out of hand seems honestly… weird? If it were an actual proposal you’d do a study and a survey before reaching a conclusion. We’d also need a working knowledge as to how trans travellers are currently being treated by security staff to understand what the actual issues are. That would be the actual starting point, not a fake-outrage-hypothetical.

          5. Rob_G

            Nigel, your heart is in the right place, but you are seriously not living in the real world – how is every gate on every airport, concert venue, sports stadium, nightclub (in some places) etc supposed to staff it with every possible variant of gender identification?

          6. Nigel

            A I said, it was a hypo to a hypo (more of a gotcha.) If this issue really concerned them they’d find out how trans travelers are being treated right now to see what the actual issues are.

          7. broadbag

            Okay Nigel, I’m off to do a study and a survey and a proposal before I comment again, hope you’ll do likewise.

      1. scottser

        i always thought that someone could indicate a preference to be searched by a male or female officer.

        clampers, leave nigel alone. it’s too early to drink; therefore too early to pick sides in a row.

        1. Clampers Outside

          But it’s sunny Scottser. Ahhh the days when the sun was up and hot was the only excuse needed :)

          (that’s not a recommend, just me a reminiscing)

    2. Janet, I ate my avatar

      it’s your job to frisk people, I have a male gyno, where does the uncomfortable come in

      1. broadbag

        A lot of women request female gynos too, by default if you set off a metal detector in (most) airports and you’re female, a female security person frisks you and vice versa. Some people don’t care either way, but some care very much. That’s without getting into strip searches…

        1. Rob_G

          I think you are over-complicating things; just ask everyone who needs to be frisked, regardless of what they look like:

          “Would you feel more comfortable being frisked by a man or a woman?”

          1. Cian

            I think this would be the correct approach if someone presented with an “X” passport.

            I don’t know if it would be correct for the rest of us. The people preforming the frisking need to be considered too – it may not be fair for a man to be asked to frisk a woman.

      2. Cian

        If you choose to go to a male gyno, and he (presumably) chose to be a gyno – both parties consented.

        People are coerced into being frisked.

        If a woman is frisked by a man (or a man by a woman) this can make one or both uncomfortable. The same is true if you introduce X.

      1. Cian

        Jeez; They want LGBT-coloured pedestrian crossings?

        That is (in my opinion) wrong.
        Road signage shouldn’t be appropriated by anyone trying to make a political (or social) message.

        1. broadbag

          It’s rainbow coloured, so they feel a tiny bit more included in society, which by and large isn’t that welcoming to them, seems fairly inoffensive and a bit of colour never did anyone any harm.

          1. Cian

            “a bit of colour never did anyone any harm.”

            I remember NI in the 80s – a lot of the kerbs were painted in blue-red-and-white; or green-orange-and-white. Very pretty. Did lots of harm.

            IMO – leave the politics and sociology out of traffic management.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Leprechauns and Unicorns are meeting as we speak to tackle this issue head on….

            There will be b̶l̶o̶o̶d̶ rainbows!

          3. scottser

            it’s weird agreeing with Cian twice in one day. But he’s right – road signs and markings should be non-politial, clear, consistent and not invasive on the eye.

          4. Clampers Outside

            It has been a mantra from day one in Gender Theory to politicise the personal. An approach inherited from Feminist Theory.

          5. Clampers Outside

            Here’s a quick example, found in the first link in a Google search for ‘politicise the personal’. This is the abstract from the “academic” paper Politicising the ‘personal’: the resistant potential of creative pedagogies in teaching and learning ‘sensitive’ issues.

            “Drawing upon student narratives gleaned through qualitative interviews, this paper argues that teaching and learning ‘sensitive’ issues surrounding gender and sexualities through ‘creative’ pedagogies can be a mode of resistance against the reproduction of problematic social discourses, and to the negative impacts of neoliberalism on student’s learning within higher education. The findings point to the importance of speaking about sensitive issues; the value of creative approaches for enhancing learning; and that together these can enable students to articulate an agenda for social change. Students saw the ‘personal as political’ – of sharing personal journeys around sensitive issues as important. They further spoke of ‘apathy’ in an neoliberal era of student ‘consumers’ and how this could curtail ‘creative’ teaching and jeopardise learning. Overall, it is argued that creative approaches to teaching and learning sensitive issues can invoke a resistant potentiality which exposes the ‘hidden injuries’ (Gill, 2010) of the neoliberal university.”

          6. Harry

            I think the rainbow crossings would look really mank when covered in tyre marks and grime

  5. BS

    Gender dysphoria is a mental health condition where a person feels that their body does not match the way they feel, I.e their inner feeling if gender does not match their sex.

    Can anyone tell me another mental health condition where children under the age of 18, or anyone for that matter are treated using surgical means? Or given life altering medicines?

    The “puberty blockers” that are used to stop the onset of puberty in children are in fact the same class of chemicals used to chemically castrate gay men in the 50’s and 60’s, for example Alan Turing. Are you really comfortable with children as young as 11 or 12 being chemically castrated?

    This is happening in Ireland in the “gender clinic” of crumlin children’s hospital. Consultants are flown over from the Tavistock centre in London to “treat” children here. This is the same Tavistock centre where 15 psychologists and doctors have resigned due to the unethical way children are being treated there. Some children are told by doctors what to say to psychologists in order to pass the threshold for medical intervention.

    This is before we even get on to double mastectomy surgery on perfectly healthy women and girls. Done to treat a mental health condition. Again, what other mental health condition is treated with life altering surgery?

    I believe trans people need specific and specialised mental health services, and should be able to choose their care path once they are over 18, and should be given every opportunity to live as comfortable and safe a life as possible.

    The problem with “self identification” for gender especially on a legal travel document is that it won’t match the sex recorded on your birth certificate. Sex is binary and cannot be changed and should be held as a defining characteristic on important documents such as your passport. You can’t just decide your a different sex. Now if I choose “X” on my passport does that mean I get to choose which facilities which are sex segregated I use? Can I walk into my local gym, passport in hand claiming I am “X” and free to choose my changing room?
    The confusion between sex and gender that this government has needs to be addressed.

    I know I touched on 3 separate issues in this whole gender/sex debate/mess but they are all connected.

    Tl:dr is children shouldn’t be chemically castrated Or given double mastectomies because they feel different.
    Sex and gender are different things, you can change your sex.
    Sex segregated facilities need to be protected from people self declaring a gender, because Sex and gender are different things.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Homosexuality was classed as a mental illness too. Classifications change, thankfully.

  6. Daisy Chainsaw

    ” children shouldn’t be chemically castrated Or given double mastectomies because they feel different”

    Children don’t get that kind of surgery. They start on hormones and only after years of drug therapy and assessment get surgery in adulthood. Some trans men have waited years for surgery so what makes you think that children can just walk in to hospital and demand their boobs be removed? Stop listening to hateful terfs and educate yourself properly.

    1. SOQ

      A transgender clinic has been hit by 35 resignations in three years, as psychologists warn of “overdiagnoses” of gender dysphoria among children.

      The whistleblowers said too many children were being put on puberty-blocking drugs when they should not have been given the diagnosis.

      Former staff said they were unable to properly assess patients over fears they will be branded “transphobic”.

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/12/childrens-transgender-clinic-hit-35-resignations-three-years/

      Is there any reason to assume the same is not happening here?

        1. SOQ

          Well if BS is correct is saying that consultants are flown over from the Tavistock centre in London to Children’s Health Ireland at Crumlin- then surely it is a possibility?

          1. Clampers Outside

            +1

            Thats the same centre that over 10 psychologists and psychotherapists quit as they were being told to encourage the dysphoria rather than investigate it.

            (I posted a link to that news/expose here before but cannot locate it at this minute as mobile search is a pain in the hoop)

          2. scottser

            i remember this crowd. an internal report stated that the centre refuses to allow previous trauma, abuse and mental health conditions as part of their criteria for diagnosing dysphoria. which is nothing short of nutballs.
            I’ll have a goo and see if i can dig it up..

          3. Daisy Chainsaw

            Children don’t get surgery, they get drug therapy. When they become adults, they then decide if they want to get surgery and go jump through hoop after hoop in Loughlinstown and then go on a long waiting list to get it. A 14 year old who wants to transition from male to female isn’t going to get their mickey cut off just like that. I know that’s the kind of narrative you want, but in reality, it just doesn’t happen.

            All this anti Trans rhetoric is the same kind of bigotry directed at gay men during the AIDS crisis and just for being gay in general.

          4. Clampers Outside

            You’re missing the point.

            Start a kid on puberty blockers and the chance of them moving to the next stage of using cross-sex hormones is 100%.

            That is according to the studies available – see links to BBC given which mention the 2010 Dutch study, for example of this.

          5. SOQ

            No child should be receiving drug therapy, end of- the long term effects are not known. And for the record I have several fully transitioned friends who agree- it should only start upon adulthood.

            Questioning the risks associated with giving children hormone blockers is in no way comparable to prejudice against gay people back in the day. I know- I was bloody there.

          6. SOQ

            Let me frame this slightly differently-

            I, a long term gay rights activist, will contribute to any crowd fund of which in Ireland the intent is to prostitute those who give children such drugs.

            Accept your children for who and what they are but do harm them with your selfish preconceptions of what they should be.

          7. Clampers Outside

            Tedious, isn’t he…. Usually resorts to that when has nothing to say or add to a discussion

    2. NobleLocks

      The fact that you would use a term like TERFS marks you as the hateful one imo. I very much fear that it’s you who need education Daisy. History is not kind to people who turn a blind eye to the profound mistreatment of those who cannot fend for themselves.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Sure Karen, using Terf is exactly the same as the N word.

        History is not kind to homophobic bigots either.

        1. class wario

          it’s honestly hilarious when these guys start pearlclutching about how vicious ‘terf’ as a term is. the cog dis must be wild.

          1. Daisy Chainsaw

            They’re just shy of posting #AllLivesMatter* at me!

            (*except Trans lives, of course!)

        2. NobleLocks

          Oh wow, why not use “Boomer” too? Would that make you feel better?

          Here’s the thing: Using terms like TERF and Karen are just tactics to label and condemn. It’s OK, she was just a TERF. isn’t that right Daisy? It’s the same thing as “it’s ok, she was wearing a short dress”. Label, dehumanize, attack, the label valet will clean my conscience.

          Or maybe you think that that bloke Tara Wolf used TERF the right way when he attacked a 61 year old woman with osteoporosis? Was that OK because he identified her as a TERF? The Judge didn’t think so…
          https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/04/27/trans-identified-male-tara-wolf-charged-assault-hyde-park-attack/

          You might be foolish enough to see the T as part of the LGB but they 100% are not and they are using people like you to spout “HOMOPHOBIA” and “TRANSPHOBIA” at every person who can see through this deception. Label, dehumanize, attack, the label valet will clean my conscience.

          You really haven’t thought about this at all have you? You’ve just picked up a few handy sentences, condemned a few people who have the temerity to think differently to you, and slept soundly under your (would have been hidden 10 years ago) pride flag and let it all happen. I look forward to your rude awakening.

    3. Clampers Outside

      “only after years of drug therapy”

      Did you know that the point of the drugs, the hormone blockers, is to delay puberty while the patient figures out was is happening, and they then make a decision.
      Did you know that 100% (or 98 or 99% depending on the research you look at) of those on the drugs continue to transition?

      Why? The latest I’ve read is because the drugs literally f*** them up, mentally with increased suicidality; physically damagi ng bone structure; physically damaging reproductive organ function… and that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.
      The idea of puberty blockers being reversible has been completely trashed.

      You need to stop listening to TRAs and using derogatory comments like terf and start listening to detransitioners, and asking TRAs why are they against research being done into post-op patients and detransitioners.
      They are against it because they’ll be found out to be promoting unsafe medical practice that for all intents and purposes has used children for guinea pig like experimentations. Guinea pigs that they bullyand harass when they speak up about their experience.

      Terf? Pfffft, put that nonsense away. Look into Tavistock properly

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Where did you read about what the drugs do? I’m sure it was some non terfy site that accepts people for themselves.

        Of course there will be detransitioners, just the same as you have men and women who get married and have children but come out as gay in later life, but that doesn’t mean all married people are gay or that we shoujld prevent people from getting married and having children in case they are gay, the same as some detransitioners aren’t representative of all Trangendered people.

        1. Clampers Outside

          The point of bringing up the detransitioners is to highlight that they were, as has been said by many of them, not given the proper professional care and treatment they needed.
          In that, instead of going through checks and balances, they were actively encouraged into thinking they were trans.

          I’ve posted a link to the issues of the drugs used on here before. If I get a chance, I’ll find it again and repost.

        2. Clampers Outside

          Here’s a link on the increased suicidality. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-50046579

          I do remember too, that this info about increased suicidality was removed from an earlier report by Tavistock administrators(? … TRAs in the organisation, driving the encouragement to transition approach) in order to push the acceptance of the drugs.
          I’ll try locate that report which I had linked to before, as well.

          1. Clampers Outside

            That BBC link also mentions the Dutch study that showed that all youth that were on puberty blockers moved to the next stage of taking sex-cross hormones. There is important ethical implications in that the blockers are not intended to prep kids for moving to the next stage but are seen to be doing just that.

        3. Clampers Outside

          Here’s another BBC link, as I am trying to abide by your request (by avoiding sites off that type you don’t want) – https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51034461

          In this one, some points include:

          Bone density and puberty blockers – “National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) lists a decrease in bone density as a possible side effect of triptorelin, the drug used by Gids.”

          Fully reversible – “Although they are considered by the NHS to to be a “fully reversible” treatment, since puberty can be restarted, the blockers may also have longer-term health consequences.”
          Just because they can ‘restart’ puberty it is considered the effects are ‘reversible’. Think about the mental gymnastics one must go through to equate ‘restart’ with ‘reversible’ without even knowing long term effects.
          And doing so while admitting…”it is not yet known whether puberty blocker treatment “alters the course of adolescent brain development”.
          Remember too that adolescence and puberty are the period of human development when the most changes occur in moving from child to adult. Experimenting with unknowns on kids in this developmental phase is simply unethical (that’s my opinion, and I believe will be shown to be a common sense one when the next round of studies are published).

        4. Clampers Outside

          More on the treatment of kids…

          The NHS website used to say the following:
          “The effects of treatment with GnRH analogues are considered to be fully reversible, so treatment can usually be stopped at any time….’”

          But what they now say is…

          “Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.

          Although the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.

          It’s also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones. ”

          And they no longer say that treatment is reversible.

          Source: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-nhs-has-quietly-changed-its-trans-guidance-to-reflect-reality

          1. Clampers Outside

            (Clarification… The NHS website doesn’t itself say the treatment t is reversible, but tell readers that GIDS say it is, as per the quotes)

    4. bs

      Please dont use mysoginistic slurs in your argument, it weakens it even more.

      Children under the age of 18 have been chemically castrated, given cross sex hormones and have had mastectomies to treat a mental health condition.

      Children are told what to say by psychologists and people online to ensure that they are given the medical treatment they think they want or need.

      Autogynophiles have taken the trans rights debate and made it their own in order to abuse the positions and rights that would be hard won for trans people. The TRA movement is inherently homophobic, misogynistic, they want women whether straight or gay to give up their rights and accept men in their sexual lives, and private spaces.

      1. SOQ

        Just picking up on the misogynist thing for a minute- I haven’t got the link to hand but I did read that the vast majority of this transgender spike is young same sex attracted girls wanting to be men. Now, why is that?

        Why is it more gay females than males want to transition?

        Since when did being a good old fashioned butch lesbian become such a shameful thing?

          1. SOQ

            Here is one for ya- Pakistan, a Muslim country with no protections for LGB people passed a Transgender Person (Protection of Rights) Act in 2018 which basically means that in Pakistan- being transgendered is now preferable to being gay.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Iran encourages… sorry, forces gay persons into transition under penalty of imprisonment if they refuse to transition. I’m not surprised Pakistan does similar.

  7. NobleLocks

    +1000

    Just look at the amount of professionals who’s left Tavistock over the last few years. Barely touched on by the media.
    Just look at the thousands of percent increase in children desperately trying to reverse their surgery, many to no avail. Barely touched on by the media.
    Just ask yourself what your response would be to your child requesting that they have their arms, or legs cut off because they don’t like them?
    Just ask yourself what other kind of life-altering, permanent, experimental medical procedures you would be willing to allow your child to undergo?
    What other permanent solutions to a temporary whim would you be willing to entertain?
    Just ask yourself why there are so many Autistic children (autistic people who are known to fixate on single issues) are suddenly disphoric?
    Just look at the transgender activist bullying of anyone who has an opinion that differs to theirs.
    Just look at the career destroying methods these activists use to destroy peoples lives all in the name of the continuation of what they want.

    Male and Female and that’s it. Game over. That’s all she wrote.
    You can think of yourself as anything you like but when you attempt to impose your way of thinking on me, that is tyranny, it is wrong and I will not submit.

  8. SOQ

    Just a point on the whole self identification thing.

    Under the Trans umbrella is now many other categories other than transgender- so much so that transgender themselves are complaining that their voices are being drowned out. Two of the most vocal critics of this trend are themselves transgender, namely Rose of Dawn @Rose_Of_Dawn and Blaire White. And there are wider opponents too like Arielle Scarcella from the lesbian side and Andrew Moore from gay male.

    The point being that if this self ID was just about transgender then it would be such an issue but most of it is now about gender politics rather than actually being transgender- and some of it is just plain silly.

    1. NobleLocks

      Rose is good alright, as is Blaire. I think that people should also listen to Stephanie Davis-Arai from Transgender Trend and in particular the fearless Posie Parker (Kellie-Jay Keen-Minchin) who has lead a one woman crusade against the T agenda.

    2. class wario

      you guys try to rely on the token alt righter [member of minority group] stuff as an unquestionable authority far too much. why are the myriad trans people who directly oppose these people always ignored?

          1. SOQ

            Are you even on a part time basis gay?

            If not, have you ever even tried giving the same sex team a go?

      1. NobleLocks

        OMG you are just so eager to label and condemn everyone who has the temerity to have an opinion that differs from you.

        Are you so Left that you are at the “Left-Pole” where every opinion that differs from yours is not only right but Alt right no matter what direction it takes? You need to get your own house in order before you criticize others.

        1. class wario

          “It’s amazing how these organizations, whose existence is dependent on there being racism in the world, when they go looking for racism, they ALWAYS find it! They must be brilliant at their jobs!” – you, the other day

          Now handwringing about people being labelled and condemned. Go back to /pol/, friend

          1. NobleLocks

            I didn’t label them, I was critical of them. You know, actually talking about something rather than just cancelling it like an infant who doesn’t like something. Because, let’s face actual, real, demonstrable facts, talking is something the council of “you can’t say that” REALLY hate.

            Your position must be very weak indeed if it cannot withstand even a cursory glance at debate.

  9. jamesjoist

    I have this image of Bertie crouched naked and cowering in the corner of a shower while Millie lashes him with a vicious field thistle , she cries “feelty Peeg” with each stroke while Bertie whimpers and mewls and tries to hide an erection .

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      This is a horrible post and should be removed immediately!

      Bertie would NEVER try to hide an erection.

  10. Howya

    Why is Leo acting like this is something for FG to gift. A Sinn Fein Senator already introduced these amendments to the gender recognition bill a few years ago. Fine Gael acted like they were interested in making these changes and set up a review committee of various relevant independent organisations making submissions to the minister for employment and social protection.
    After over 2 years, last November, the report was that these issues would not be amended, to the disappointment of the trans community. Was Leo not aware of this review committee led by his own party while they were in power? Why negate the work of all these people, by saying it’s being deliberated on by Fine Gael’s LGBT committee and that it’s a condition of talks for government with other parties?

  11. Rob_G

    I wonder where Wednesday’s papers are; I can’t wait to see all of the crestfallen Bernard Shaw junior REPEAL Shinners when they hear that Sinn Féin voted in favour of restricting terminations in the case of foetal abnormality…

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