That’ll Learn Us [Updated]


This afternoon.

Following shocking scenes of happiness and physical intimacy caught by eagle-eyed informers (as above) on Saturday night in major cities…

…Via RTÉ

It is understood that a decision to end the sale of takeaway pints and other alcoholic drinks from pubs could be taken swiftly.

Senior Government sources are saying that what happened on Saturday night in a few cities cannot be allowed to continue.

It follows footage on social media of large numbers of people in Dublin city centre drinking on the streets.

Dry freedom!


Govt considering clampdown on takeaway alcoholic drinks (RTÉ)

Earlier: “Fraying Around The Edges”

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140 thoughts on “That’ll Learn Us [Updated]

    1. ReproBertie

      Of course they do and of course they know about it and on Saturday, when reports meant they were forced to act, all they did was ask people to leave the area. This is the terrible police sate we were warned about when the new powers were introduced.

      1. Toby

        A police state? Have any of you actually been to a police state? Honestly, you live in a first world democratic country where the cops don’t even have guns. Please look around you and check your privilege,

        1. benblack


          Micheál Martin decided to disseminate this information – the shocking consumption of pints in public while public houses remain closed – to a proven public masturbator on planes – a terrorist, if you like – where the private and public war of conscience is still out about publicly masturbating on a plane.

          If only we could be guided by a superior intelligence and moral authority that could dispel all this confusion in the minds of ordinary people.

    1. Nigel

      Pkease ignore the front-line health staff reeling from exhaustion and mental anguish behind the curtains.

      1. Micko

        Which hospitals are overrun now Nigel?
        Or is this anecdotal?

        Some are having issues because a huge number of staff are off sick and isolating.

        From Breaking news 3 days ago
        “ Significant outbreaks in Naas General Hospital, Letterkenny and Limerick University Hospitals, including Ennis Hospital which operates within the UHL group have led to almost 300 staff being off work.”

        PPE not working then…

  1. Tinytim

    Never getting out of level5 ?
    Pull the other one.

    Ireland’s numbers has had a steady decline since 18th Oct. some 3
    Days before level 5 was implemented.

    Given the10-14 day lag in numbers from infection ( as seen earlier in year ) it could be speculated that this reduction was due to Dublin/Donegal already being in level 3 for some weeks.

    Furthermore the slight uptrend in the last week ( which we appear to beyond) was likely due to Halloween mischief.


  2. Johnnythree

    She’s a dose. So what if people are hanging out. It’s outside. Go police them then as she suggests and they’ll just hang out inside which is worse.
    She’s got little to be doing wandering around covert filming on Saturday night.

    1. Toby

      Thats right Johnny, She has little to be doing since her wedding business is closed and all the jobs that go with it are gone. So no wonder she is livid with selfish, ignorant doses like yourself who have no care but for your own pleasure. Your freedom does not extend to putting me in danger – and the same goes for those leeches on the sidewalks.

      1. Cui Bono?

        You are targeting your anger at the wrong people.

        The average IFR is only 0.23% and only 0.05% for under 70s. Long covid is minuscule too.

        The government, media and NPHET are to blame in Ireland.

        Everything should open up immediately.

          1. Cui Bono?

            You don’t have to be an “epidemiologist genius” to quote IFR data directly from the WHO and highly respected epidemiologists.

            The fact that you ignore the scientific data is what is frightening and ignorant.

            Do you not think for one second Toby that your fear may be irrational?

            You will need to actually look at the data though to answer this question truthfully.

          2. Toby

            Here’s the point. We have hundreds and thousands of experts looking at the data. Trained people who have expertise in this are. They adivse us for the benefit of society. But there is a cohort of people who chose to know better and act in a way that puts others at risk. And then after a million people die, they gaslight us by saying we are too worried. Those people should be shunned and ignored, because their knowledge and motivation falls short of what a civilised society requires.

          3. E'Matty

            @ Toby – no Toby. You are a perfect example of the problem. Too lazy and suffering from your intellectual inferiority complex, you abdicate all responsibility for thinking for yourself to others you have been conditioned into viewing as some kind of infallible high priests and arbiters of truth, the magical “experts”. Do you have such low confidence in your own intellect that you believe you cannot understand simple statistics? Perhaps a fatality rate of just 0.23% is beyond your intellectual capacity to properly comprehend, I don’t know.

            For a democracy to function properly, citizens have a responsilbity to inform themselves and play a role in the decision making process, always holding power to account. People like you ignore this civic reponsibility, and even worse, you attack those who do not shirk their duties as you have done. You seem to think we vote every five years and then leave it to your “experts” to run everything. Everything in between is just too complicated for your little mind to comprehend, it seems.

            “They advise us for the benefit of society” What are you? 6? Fancy joining the real adult world some time soon where career progression, financial gain, vanity etc.. are the motivating factors for many?

            “their knowledge and motivation falls short of what a civilised society requires.” Says the fella who thinks everything is just too complicated for him to understand,. Better just leave everything to those “experts” to run.

      2. Johnnythree

        That made me laugh. You are super woke. Just like Tara.
        Go direct your anger at the Govt who locked us down because of our failing health system which we all pay to populate with muppets. What are we to do, stay under the bed till we are at zero?
        Please go educate yourself.

        1. Micko

          Ha ha!

          Yes Indeed @Toby

          “ Your freedom does not extend to putting ME in danger”

          You’re worried about yourself, you could give a flyin faaak about grannies dying.

          But yeah Johnnythree is “selfish”. Showing your true colours Toby ;)

          1. Micko

            If he is then he’s always at risk Bertie and (if he chooses to) he should be responsible for protecting himself and not insist that everyone else in society should protect him.

            Technically, I’m in a high risk category too btw. ;)

            Life is risky, not living it is riskier.

            I’m responsible for me – not you or anyone else.

          2. Toby

            You’re responsible for you until you need a ventilator and an ICU bed and a job and PUP p[ayment. Then you won’t be long asking everyone else to be responsible for you. But by your comments here, its not something that bothers you. Leech as you likey.

          3. Micko

            Ha ha @Toby!

            Did I hit a nerve there buddy! Calm down

            I contribute a hell of a lot pal…

            But, everyone should have access to a ventilator and treatment if needed – no matter what they contribute.

            Nutters like you calling for no treatment for people who you think are “Leeches” or “not following ze rules” – you’re the dangerous ones.

          4. Toby

            Everyone should have access to a ventilator? What level of entitlement do you operate under? You should be free to do what you like and have the rest of us pay for you and then look after you when you get sick?

            I never called for no treatment for you, but you certainly are calling for no safety for me if it interferes with your bush drinking. Selfish much?

          5. Micko


            So no treatment for smokers either? What about fat people? Where do you stop Toby?

            Or is just people who think differently to you who don’t get treatment?

          6. Toby

            What have smokers and fat people got to do with anything? We are talking about your insistence on doing what you like during a pandemic with no consideration for others, but yet expecting them to care for you. Thats not a society, its selfish individualistic behaviour that puts people at risk. And you’re an adult? Grow up and think of others.

          7. Micko

            Toby, are you having a melt down today? :p

            “ puts people at risk”

            You’re hilarious man. You’re the one talking about restricting medical care because of people’s actions.


          8. Toby

            never talked once about restricting them. I talked about the entitlement you have in behaving as you like and expecting everyone else to fork out for your actions.

          9. millie

            That kind of assumption really pisses me off, actually. It’s not just concern for myself which drives me.

            I admit I’m high risk, though I certainly don’t look it. So is my 7 year old daughter. And I can adhere to the restrictions and do my bit but it means SFA when we have people refusing to use masks.

            My daughter, who I am responsible for, spent her formative months on a ventilator in ICU, would absolutely be at risk if I picked up Covid. I will take personal responsibility for me and mine because I’m all too aware of what an ICU looks like. But exactly how much personal responsibility can I take when there are people who won’t wear a mask, who think taking these precautions are a waste of time?

            Would you call me selfish for putting the welfare of my child first, for hoping and expecting others to put the welfare of those at risk ahead of their own? I don’t think so. And I think you’d be hard pushed to find a parent who’d see themselves as selfish for protecting the wellbeing of their child.

          10. Frank

            @millie my child was treated for 4 very long years in Johns ward Crumlin for Acute Lymphoblastic Leukaemia. any and all bacterial infection could have been fatal. covid 19 even though its a novel virus is the least of our worries.

          11. millie

            Well it’s not the least of my worries, Frank. It’s something I do worry about a great deal.

            I do hope your child has recovered and is in the very pink of health. I wouldn’t wish cancer on anyone, let alone a child.

          12. SOQ

            Genuine question Milie but why do you think you and yours are more at risk from SARS-Cov-2 and not say- the flu?

            My point is that people who are vulnerable to this virus are usually equally vulnerable to other seasonal viruses- so apart from the media fear mongering, what is so different about this one? .

          13. millie

            It’s a good point and I see where you’re coming from.

            I’ve suffered from severe asthma for my whole life, been hospitalised a number of times for it too, and nearly died from an asthma attack as a child. I find myself on a nebuliser most winters, because of my asthma, usually triggered by a flu or chest infection. I usually get the flu vaccine.

            Maybe Covid doesn’t warrant this level of public compliance, I don’t know. I do know my own health, and I know that if a chest infection can leave me hospitalised, as has happened in the past, then I would be fearful of a virus that has seen many people (with better health than me) hospitalised.

            Regarding my daughter, while she is a healthy and happy little girl, she will always have a congenital weakness in her respiratory system as a result of her birth. She has asthma too, though not as severe as mine, and while I’m lucky that she’s not suffered any serious complications, barring a few asthma attacks, there is a risk that she could be made seriously ill by such a virus, or by a flu or chest infection. I can’t do very much to protect her from these things, which is your point, I think. But I’d rather err on the side of caution. We can only do what we can.

          14. Micko


            I said “Everyone should have access to a ventilator”

            And you said “What level of entitlement do you operate under?”

            So you are inviting that people aren’t entitled to a ventilator. Think man think

          15. Toby

            Yeah Micko, there should be world peace and joy forever, but we live in the real world. While you pontificate about what there “should” be according to you, the rest of us are dealing with a pandemic that has killed thousands and threatens thousands more. The truth is we are heading into the most dangerous period of the pandemic, so you would be better focusing on your responsibilities as a citizen rather than your entitlements.

          16. Micko


            Sorry to hear you little girl is not well. Genuinely.

            But, your little girl is always at risk. I know that’s not fair. But, it’s the truth.

            The fact is that this is only about twice as dangerous as the regular flu. Even less for younger people.

            If the vaccines work and protect the vulnerable then great. If not, the world has to get back to normal.

            Or MY 6 year old little girl and others like her might find themselves unable to experience the world the way we all did or even worse, because their Daddy’s can’t pay the mortgage and bills anymore.

            So yeah, you’re right – hard pushed to find a parent who’d see themselves as selfish for protecting the wellbeing of their child

          17. millie

            Micko, just to save me from having to repeat a lot of what I wrote in reply to soq, please see above regarding my own health and my daughter’s.

            She has a weakness in her lungs because of her birth, she is prone to chest infection and issues with her breathing, as well as asthma. I cannot in good conscience as a parent blithely say, oh well it’s only twice as dangerous as the regular flu so she should be fine. I do get what you’re saying – there is always risk, and you’re not wrong in that. But I will, as far as I can, try to mitigate that risk as much as possible, which as a parent yourself, I’m sure you understand.

            And I do see your point about your child experiencing a different world to the one we knew, but I think that is inevitable anyway. This has and will change how society deals with health crises, indeed health in general, across the world. Do you think that whenever this passes that masks will be a more normal, even acceptable part of our daily lives? eg. Like on public transport. I think it’s entirely possible.

          18. Micko

            “ The truth is we are heading into the most dangerous period of the pandemic”.

            Oh really?

            So where’d you get your medical degree from Toby?

            Waitin months to say that to one of you guys ;p

          19. Oro

            None of the Mammies are able to pay the bills no Micki? I’d say I’m surprised you’d think that way but I’d be lying!

          20. Micko

            Oh FFS

            Ye know when I was writing that (from my perspective) I thought “ I better put in Daddys & Mammys” in case some one has a go.

            “Don’t be silly” I said, “no one is that sad.”

            But then you came along Oro to prove me wrong. :p

          21. Oro

            Lol I believe in poker they call this kind of error a ‘tell’. As in it tells on you, as in you told on yourself. Those kind of things say a lot about a person I’ve found through experience. And as I said before, unsurprised seeing that comment from you.

          22. Micko

            And Oro, just because I’m against lockdowns, doesn’t mean I’m a sexist. What are on about?

            You guys are always looking to put people in your little boxes.

          23. Oro

            I didn’t say you were sexist because you were anti-lockdown. I drew attention to a comment you made which was indirectly sexist. There’s no need to get upset about it, I’m just suggesting one could draw certain conclusions from this with a degree of probable accuracy. Ladies amirite?

          24. Micko

            Hey I’m not upset Oro

            Just don’t like people who try to call people on something that isn’t intentionally being sexist or racist or whatever. It’s lame.

            Especially considering the company I own (with my wife – yeah real sexist me) has done more pro-bono work for women’s causes, women’s businesses and the LGBT community than I’d say all of you on virtue signalling tools here.

            And if you like, you can ask Bodger and the mods to verify.

            So stop trying to label me in one of your little boxes because of one tiny off hand comment.

          25. Oro

            Are you upset now about my suggesting you were upset? Shall we settle on ‘bothered’? Very sensitive, a surprising turn of events considering. I don’t need info on your biz, or a group of men (mods!) to vouchsafe how ‘pro-wimmin’ you are (or claim to be), but safe to say being married does not preclude one from sexism (both active and passive forms). A gentle reminder I didn’t accuse you of sexism, you expanded my comment to mean that. But you’re doing an interesting job of digging a certain type of hole. Bonne chance!

          26. Micko

            “or a group of men (mods!) to vouchsafe how ‘pro-wimmin’ you are (or claim to be),”

            Wow… just wow.

            Yup, you keep talking an I’ll keep DOING to make the world better for Women and Men alike.

            Saving the world you are! ;P

          27. SOQ

            Thanks for the reply Mille and best wishes to yourself and the mini Millie too. For the last 12 years of her life, my mother had a chronic lung condition which meant we had to take extra precautions when planning to stay or visit- first sign of the sniffles etc. so my point is that protecting the vulnerable is nothing new.

            The problem is, that just like my mother, lockdowns and the carnage they cause will not reduce your risks because despite all endeavours, it will still work its way through the population- just like all coronas before it.

            The best hope is that it does not have enough hosts to circulate so I suggest you take stock and ask yourself why this one above all others is so important- and the answer is- just like the rest of us- because you have been repeatedly told it was.

        2. benblack


          My daughter also spent the first few months of her life in ICU and on a ventilator – she was born pre-mature.

          She is now 25, still studying, beautiful, and suffered no ill-effects – apart from my genes.

          I learned then, when things were touch and go, that life is not in my hands nor the government – all I could do was pray.

          1. millie

            Thanks, benblack. Your story sounds identical to mine, and it’s always great to hear such encouraging things. They do say that premature babies are fighters.

            As I mentioned above, my daughter is incredibly prone to chest infection and so on, which is down to her birth, as well as asthma. I am probably being over cautious, I admit. It’s probably not the worst lesson to take away, to roll with the punches.

      3. Toby

        I love when lockdown critics tell people to go educate themselves. Maybe just try some discipline and lay off the bush drinking? Maybe think of others health rather than your own pleasure? Maybe be good citizens instead of selfish leeches living off the generosity of frontline workers and taxpayers who have to actually compensate for your refusal to be decent neighbours. Ignorant spanners.

        1. Johnnythree

          I’m not a lockdown critic at all. But I am a logical person. So I laugh at the indignation of people such as yourself & Tara.
          So, the risk of spread is low in open air, we know that. By your logic so people who to takeways or supermarkets are also selfish, congregating where the virus could strike etc? Hmmm? People are allowed to congregate within their 5k. So whats the problem?
          I point that out and you call me selfish and go into Pup Payment/ ICU discourse — whats that got to do with anything? Tara says its shocking that people are on the street in the open air – how are we to ever escape Level 5 she asks. Asked purely selfishly probably because she wants her business to open. Thats grand. But don’t go painting people as selfish just because neither you or her are smart enough to critically appraise the situation.

          1. Toby

            Just stay at home like a good lad and stop with your grandstanding. You know whell this selfish thinking and putting your individual pleasure ahead of the collective good will only lead to further cases and deaths. Try and think of others, park your ego and need to be right and listen to those who know better and have better intentions.

          2. Toby

            This is the problem. Muppets like you ar more interested in winning the argument rather than keeping people safe during a pandemic. Spouting that narcissistic, jumped up taxi-driver level of knowledge and thinking its clever is the height of ignorance. Check your motivation and you’ll find ego.

        2. f_lawless

          Toby, you reminded me of this quote from a recent speech given by former UK Supreme Court judge, Lord Sumption:

          “It is very difficult to respect the way in which this government’s decisions have been made. It marks a move to a more authoritarian model of politics which will outlast the present crisis..

          The next few years will see a radical transformation in the relationship between the state and its citizens and with it will come an equally fundamental change in our relations with each other. A change characterised by distrust, resentment and mutual hostility. In the nature of things, authoritarian governments fracture the societies which they govern.

          The use of political power as an instrument of mass coercion is corrosive. It divides and it embitters. In this case, it’s aggravated by a sustained assault on social interaction which will sooner or later loosen the glue which has helped us to deal with earlier crises. The unequal impact of the government’s measures erodes any sense of national solidarity

    1. ian-oh

      I don’t believe in Nihilism or anything else really.

      There really is no point in thinking about it further, its completely and utterly pointless.

  3. frank

    Is it all an elaborate psychological test to see how quickly we become prison guards in our own jail?
    Tara has passed the test. Well done Tara.

    1. Redundant Proofreaders Society

      This current lockdown has lured the likes of Tara to new and dizzying heights. They say some may not return to their normal careers but will stay active in the pontification sector.

          1. Johnnythree

            says Toby who was less than loving in the comments above. No answers to any pushback just vitrol and now concerned with Tara? Maybe you are Tara…..

          2. Toby

            Its just a bit creepy the way you are all hating on her so personally. What is it about her behaviour that triggered you?

    2. Micko

      Just like the Stanford prison experiment Frank.

      I feel like I’ve woken up in a mental asylum and I have to pretend to be mad too, so the other inmates don’t tear me apart.

      1. Toby

        Ahhh, the 99% are mental and our Johnny is the sane one. How self aggrandising. My view is the only view, my happiness the only important thing. Are you a taxi driver?

  4. Mr .T

    The majority of cases are in a much older demographic – people in their 30s and 40s visiting eachothers homes despite the restrictions. But can’t miss a chance to blame those darn young people, hanging out in a well ventilated (and chilly) outdoors environment.

    1. SOQ

      Absolutely- when you step back you can see how ridiculous this nonsense is.

      Locking up healthy people with all the associated death and suffering which will dwarf CoVid-19 figures, because of a virus that for the most part targets comorbid elderly and has a fatality rate equivalent to flu- isn’t just wrong, it is downright criminal.

  5. Ronan

    I haven’t had a hot toddy on the street since the lockdown, but a little voice inside me thinks that shutting down this rather basic and outdoor setup demands civil disobedience.

    What street to street transmission has anyone heard of?

    I’m very much for lockdowns, but if you’re going to close down a takeaway drink then you should close down takeaway coffee too.

    Police those who take the mickey, disperse crowds, and let anyone who isn’t ripping the proverbial continue to freeze themselves outdoors and talk to a friend. I mean, we’re probably talking about a bunch of people living in 1 bed apartments – or worse, a small room in a flat share – meeting on the street and sharing a socially distanced drink in most cases.

  6. Ronan

    I haven’t had a hot toddy on the street since the lockdown, but a little voice inside me thinks that shutting down this rather basic and outdoor setup demands civil disobedience. I could see people bringing their own gatts to town and refusing to disperse.

    What street to street transmission has anyone heard of?

    I’m very much for lockdowns, but if you’re going to close down a takeaway drink then you should close down takeaway coffee too.

    Police those who take the mickey, disperse crowds, and let anyone who isn’t ripping the proverbial continue to freeze themselves outdoors and talk to a friend. I mean, we’re probably talking about a bunch of people living in 1 bed apartments – or worse, a small room in a flat share – meeting on the street and sharing a socially distanced drink in most cases.

  7. v AKA Frilly Keane

    why didn’t the Guards just go in and make use of the laws n’ new regs they already have in their hands

    insteada this banning off-licence sales talk

    Cop the feck on everyone

    There is already legislation enacted to manage this
    Calm down with the overreaching angst and snoopery

  8. The good doc

    would ya be bothered taking to the streets on a wet Friday night to film some young uns sipping a dirty old pint

      1. ReproBertie

        Sounds like an Evening Herald investigation is called for. Remember the days when they sent photographers out on Junior Cert night to photograph the half dressed young folk getting up to all sorts?

  9. BS


    Although opening the pubs 2 weeks before Xmas will be lunacy. People can’t be trusted to act responsibly

  10. Barry the Hatchet

    I’ve always been puzzled as to why takeaway pints were ever permitted when drinking on the street is not allowed. Where are people supposed to consume these pints legally?

        1. scottser

          Take away means you take your pint away. Where you drink it us not the pub’s business and if you drink it on the street you are subject to local by-laws.
          So there.

          1. George

            So there? You sound like a child. You’ve mistaken the level 4 rules for the level 5. Next time just look it up before jumping on the Caps lock.

            “Wet pubs in Dublin remain closed”. There is no take away service allowed in Dublin.

            You’re also incorrect that it is none of the pub’s business where take away drink is consumed. The law says it must not be consumed within 100m of the premises so allowing drinking of take away alcohol outside the pub is a violation of their licence.

  11. Panty Christ

    It is virtually impossible to catch the ‘rona outside in the wind and lashing rain. Science points to good ventilation as being an excellent barrier against covid 19. If we pump shared spaces indoors with an abundance of ventilation we wouldn’t even need a vaccine.

    1. Redundant Proofreaders Society

      Our local regularly did that on winter nights to get punters to finish their lined-up five rounds and go home. Just by opening the back door. Good times.

    2. Johnnythree

      Don’t tell Tara that. She thinks its lurking in the air waiting for groups of 1+ to emerge.
      No logic.

  12. Johnnythree

    Above a snapshot of how well thought out our regulations are. Even the cops don’t know. But Tara does. Apparently.

      1. Johnnythree

        It must be hard being behind Toby. But you can get better. Start with Edward de Bonos stuff and work up. You’ll be grand. Soon an adult, able to disagree.

  13. johnny

    New York style:)
    -Investigators raided the warehouse at 11:15 p.m. Saturday and found at least 203 people watching and participating in amateur fights.
    Authorities seized two handguns, along with drugs and booze, officials said.
    Participants also failed to wear face masks or observe social distancing while drinking, smoking marijuana and fighting, authorities said-
    -This is just the latest illegal large gathering busted by the New York City Sheriff’s Department.
    -An early morning raid Friday found 205 people illegally partying at a Chelsea venue, complete with VIP velvet ropes.

    haven’t touched the wresting in Chelsea.

  14. Daisy Chainsaw

    That paragon of free range culling, Sweden, are getting the waggy finger for complacency.

    “It’s going to get worse,” Löfven said. “Do your duty and take responsibility for stopping the spread of the virus. In the spring we saw large compliance. It was enough to have recommendations to get most people to keep their distance and cancel their plans. Now there is less compliance.”

    1. SOQ

      Completely unbiased piece from the nice comfortable work from home Guardian.

      Sweden’s overall fatalities are at 5 year low.

      1. E'Matty

        @ Toby – and their Covid fatalities are almost idenitical to Ireland’s when the population age profile is taken into account, which of course it should be for a virus which affects almost exclusively the very elderly with serious underlying conditions.

          1. millie

            Tbh, we don’t really do in depth discussions of the covid data coming out of Sweden. He has simply said that there has been a rise in cases and that the government were/are going to bring in some restrictions when last I spoke to him.

            He’s less than happy about it, as his opinion on covid would be closer to yours than mine, and he thought the Swedish approach to the virus was impressive. So we’ve had our share of disagreements over the past few months, as I’m sure you can imagine.

      2. Oro

        Interesting data here on patterns of behaviour in countries, I glanced at Sweden; if you look through the section of ‘mobility changes over time’ it looks like the Swedish population – despite what some would have you believe – have totally changed their habits and are spending considerably less time in offices, recreational spaces, shared transport etc and much more time at home. What could it all mean!

        1. SOQ

          Oh come on- Sweden’s bars, restaurants, shops, hairdressers and schools remained open throughout- and no bloody masks.

          Please, stop the spinning and answer a very straight forward question- if closing the things listed above are so important then why is Sweden’s hospital and fatality rates not going crazy?

          1. Oro

            I’m not spinning anything I just linked some info. The data shows that in Sweden, even tho these places are open, they’re not as busy as they would have been last year, in fact they’re significantly less busy I.e. life is not ‘going on as normal’ (paraphrasing). Let’s not forget that the other Scandinavian countries are a better profile match than Ireland for Sweden and its under performing in critical categories (deaths for instance) by a magnitude of around 10x deaths per population. You can’t argue around those figures. I think the reality of the situation is that most Swedes are working from home where possible, not eating out, or using public transport unless they have to, and the businesses are just open, but verrrrrrry quiet. So it’s in a weird third place between open and closed. Pretty much manifesting as somewhere with partial lockdowns?

  15. d

    i didnt vote this government in and dont agree with restrictions but my opinion is irrelevant. i reckon over 50% voted for FF, FG and Green in last election.

    Therefore democracy agrees to these strict measures. i am anti lockdown. And i think people are responsible for their actions. if you get the virus, well hard luck, you know the risks. And now ICUs are full. The only thing, if we get sick and dying on the streets with no hospital beds, we would hang our heads in shame.

    FF/FG have think thanks and PR guys. If they are advised that the public are against lockdown and they will be destroyed in the next election, they would ease restrictions. But the public arent against, so they wont.

    This is not a police state. this is not a dictatorship. the people have spoken and said to stay home. whether you do, is up to you. but live with the consequences.

      1. George

        Can you explain how what happened in Belgian hospitals wouldn’t happen in Irish hospitals, especially in January, if they took your advice?

        1. SOQ

          We are not in January, we are in November and the hospitalizations and ICU rates are nowhere near what they then.

          There was and is no justification for this lockdown because the spike was already going down before it was even implemented- it is malfeasance.

      2. E'Matty

        Exactly SOQ, all of this talk about our ICUs and just 5% of those who died were ever admitted to ICU. That stat alone exposes the hysteria over this virus for what it is and really underpins the points on the age profile, co-morbidities and dying WITH Covid. If Covid was the prime cause of death, why were they not treated in ICU? Covid is treatable. They weren’t because these were all very elderly and already very ill people for whom ICU treatment would be of little benefit. We are wrecking our society all over the fear this government, the medical professionals (with notable exceptions) and the media have induced in the populace with a relentless barrage of doom and gloom and terrorising of the people into believing this virus poses an almost existential risk to them and their loved ones. Just 5% of those who died admitted to ICU, a fatality rate of just 0.23% (and much lower if under 65 and healthy), and a median age of death in excess of life expectancy levels. What kind of a crap pandemic causes no statistical rise in overall deaths in the population over the year? How are people still buying this BS?

  16. goldenbrown

    I don’t know what to make of this

    I’m tired of C19 deniers (I’ve seen it’s affects personally up close, so it exists and you’ll never convince me otherwise, endof) but I’m also tired of this kind of snitchy society we’re fast becoming. confusing.

    is this is a binary choice? that the ONLY way this works out is to either a) treat the situation as a wartime environment, lock the sht down in a full-on martial law sense, do what you’re told or else and forcibly deploy the vaccine juice when it becomes available or b) forget all that, open up the show completely, party like it’s 1999 (jasus what I’d give to be back in 1999) and allow C19 to harvest the weak and have that on our shoulders till we pass on ourselves

    meanwhile here’s something worth watching from the United States of Trump:

    A South Dakota ER nurse @JodiDoering says her Covid-19 patients often “don’t want to believe that Covid is real.”“Their last dying words are, ‘This can’t be happening. It’s not real.’ And when they should be… Facetiming their families, they’re filled with anger and hatred.”


    1. Verbatim

      I don’t know what’s going on but I’m CERTAIN of it – you’d be safer if you stay in the Matrix.

    2. E'Matty

      except most are not denying Covid exists, we are merely challenging the claims that it is this super deadly virus that justifiies locking down the country and devastating Irish society to protect against when in fact we now know that it is a virus with a 0.23% fatality rate which is only fatal almost exclusively for the very elderly who are already extremely ill with at least one other comorbidity (who would also be vulnerable to a normal seasonal flu). Yes, if you are infected, you may suffer a very heavy flu-like illness, possibly leaving some lasting effects after for a small minority (as many other viruses do), but for the vast majority, they will recover fully and most (80%+) will not even suffer any symptoms at all. Let’s get things in perspective here.

      The evidence in support of lockdowns significantly reducing the death rate is simply not there either. Sweden has an almost identical death rate when population age profile is taken into account. So, we are destroying our economy, killing off the SME sector en masse, causing wide spread mental suffering, deaths to come through delayed diagnosis of the usual killers like cancer, heart disease, neurological disorders etc.. where a few months can mean the diffference between treatment and recovery, and it being terminal; destroying the educational prospects of large swathes of our young population, particularly those already in vulnerable positions. This lockdown policy will see economic inequality in this country rise even further, poverty and deprivation levels become even more pronounced and widespread. We are building up untold suffering with our current actions.

      People are frightened and desperate to return to “normal”. 2019 normal is never coming back. This needs to be realised. The longer we drag this overreaction to this moderately dangerous virus on, the worse this country and it’s people will suffer in the coming years. This is only the beginning.

      1. Verbatim

        It’s absurd to think that this is about the virus, it’s moved beyond that to the reset of the economic system and the organising of the building back better program – there is more evidence of this than there is of a killer virus. We have to remain locked down for a bit longer (months?) to get the renaissance under way.

          1. benblack

            He is no Leo X.

            But it is a Renaissance of sorts.

            Let’s leave that to the historians – if there are any left.

            Historians and Scientists + Money.

            What could go wrong?

  17. Ger


    Covid-19: Ireland heading for under 100 cases a day by December, says Nphet expert
    The chairman of the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) modelling advisory group, said the reproduction rate is now close to 0.5, meaning incidences of the disease are declining rapidly.

    We have a short period of time to turn this around’: Officials warn Covid-19 situation deteriorating across country
    Deputy Chief Medical Officer Dr Ronan Glynn said: “We are concerned that, unfortunately, the very positive trajectory we have been reporting in recent weeks has at best stalled and in fact according to a number of indicators is now deteriorating

    They really are making it up as they go, nphet are nothing but a bunch of incompetent civil servants, the above proves it.

    1. GiggidyGoo

      They’re not meeting weekly as far as I can make out.
      Up until 3 days ago, the last meeting that had minutes written for referred to 24th Sept.

      The next minutes posted were on 1st October. No mention of minutes of previous meeting as having been circulated.
      The next minutes posted for 4th October mentioned that the minutes of the meeting of 24th Sept had been circulated.
      The next minutes posted in the past couple of days referred to 15th Oct. and mentioned that the minutes of the meeting 1st October had been circulated.

      And we are now five weeks on since those 15th October minutes.
      The ‘in attendance’ people mentioned in the minutes. Those are people who would not normally take part in the discussion that takes place and arenot entitled to participate in any voting that takes place.

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