Deputy charge nurse Katie McIntosh administers the first of two Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine jabs, to Vivien McKay Clinical Nurse Manager at the Western General Hospital, in Edinburgh, Scotland yesterday
This afternoon.
UK regulators have issued a warning that people who have a history of “significant” allergic reactions should not currently receive the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine after two people who had the jab yesterday had allergic reactions.
Via RTÉ:
Two NHS staff members who received the vaccine on the first day of the mass vaccination programme suffered an allergic reaction, the NHS in England has confirmed.
The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has given precautionary advice to NHS trusts that anyone who has a history of “significant” allergic reactions to medicines, food or vaccines should not receive the vaccine.
UK regulator issues allergy warning over Covid vaccine (RTÉ)
Reuters
Didn’t see this one coming…..
so I can’t take it then, I have seizures with certain medicines, allergic to penicillin, etc etc,
but isn’t Ireland receiving a different brand , or not pfizer ?
It has placed orders for four different vaccines, including the Pfizer jab, but the largest of 3.3 million doses is with the Oxford University/AZ crowd.
which, despite its earlier boast of 95% efficacy, turns out to only have 60-70%
perfidious albion again
isn’t it 60-70% after the first dose and then 95%+ after the second?
That’s not entirely accurate. The vaccine efficacy is 62% if given two full doses, and 90% if given as a half dose, then a full dose.
Test results also show the vaccine efficacy against asymptomatic transmission is 27%, which rises to 59% in the half dose, full dose regimen.
Test results also show the vaccine efficacy against asymptomatic transmission is 27%, which rises to 59% in the half dose, full dose regimen.
Citation please?
LOL at you asking for citations. Here you go, knock yourself out.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/astrazeneca-vaccine-better-at-stopping-covid-than-slowing-transmission/articleshow/79636051.cms
Andrew Pollard, the Oxford professor who led the study, called the data “tantalizing” but said it was too early to draw firm conclusions.
As our most knowledgeable vaccine person Alick said- paraphrase granted- testing transmissibility is more complicated and takes a lot longer to measure.
Interesting that they haven’t specified how they are testing of course- especially as the accuracy of PCR is getting an absolute hammering right now.
As I’ve said on other topics, we do not yet have enough data to confirm the prevention of asymptomatic transmission.
Moderna Chief Medical Officer Tal Zaks: “When we start the deployment of this vaccine, we will not have sufficient concrete data to prove that this vaccine reduces transmission.Do I believe that it reduces transmission? Absolutely yes, and I say this because of the science.”
That hasn’t stopped some people running around claiming that the vaccines don’t stop transmission.
It probably does prevent transmission to a certain extent n the same was as HIV drugs do but that is quite different be immune.
The plain fact is- until they can explain how SARS-CoV-2 was in sewage systems and people were developing antibodies SIX MONTHS before CoVid-19 outbreaks- they are are nowhere understanding the full transmission routes.
My own conspiracy theory is that these vaccines do frig all- but then again they don’t need to. All they need to do is convince enough people that it is safe to do normal things again- and the politicians get off the hook for their malfeasance.
Does that mean you’ll be stopping making broad sweeping statements about the vaccines until we have more data?
Manufactures are not making any claims about SARS-CoV-2 immunity or reduction in infectiousness with these vaccines- that is not a broad statement- THAT IS FACT.
You repeatedly claim “these vaccines do not prevent transmission” but we do not have the data to back that up. In fact we have some data to show that they do prevent transmission (citation above). So will you be refraining from making that broad statement until we have more data?
Notice how I didn’t even need to type in all caps like some child throwing a tantrum.
No- I am saying that manufactures are not making any claims about SARS-CoV-2 immunity or reduction in infectiousness with these vaccines and that is VERY important because it will be a long time before they can make any such claims- if ever.
All I’m asking is if you will stop making the broad statement “the vaccines don’t prevent transmission” when we don’t yet have enough data to confirm the veracity of that statement. This is a claim you have made repeatedly and whenever you are asked about it you shift goalposts like a club mentor at half time in Croke Park, much like you are doing now.
WHO representative Professor Katherine O’Brien when asked about the efficacy of preventing transmission just now on the Preston show said “We don’t have that information yet.” which means- they don’t know.
Take it or don’t take it but until the evidence is presented- do not claim you are doing it for the good of others.
Yeah, that’s the point I’ve been making. We don’t know yet. There are encouraging signs coming from the studies but we need more data.
You are so adamant that they can’t claim to prevent transmission until the data arrives but you see nothing wrong with saying they don’t prevent transmission despite the same lack of data?
So why wasn’t that flagged before now? Did none of the guinea pigs have an allergic reaction during the tests?
There’s potential for allergic reaction with EVERY medication. Read the instructions that come with your Panadol or Anadin which draw your attention to possible allergic reactions.
Ah no we have to make a big song and dance. Has anyone ever not been to hospital and not been asked several times: “are you allergic to anything”. I’m off to do a gig whilst signing loudly (albeit off tune).
So these nurses were asked, and they answered…what – yes, or no?
Giggidy, along with a couple of others on here, you’re not covering yourself in any great intellectual glory of late. it’s all there on the mainstream media. this from the Guardian:
“Both of the NHS staff carry adrenaline autoinjectors, suggesting they have suffered reactions in the past. These kind of devices, of which the best-known brand is the EpiPen, administer a swift adrenaline boost to counter allergic reactions that occur when some people, for instance, eat nuts.
The patient information leaflet with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine says it should not be given to people allergic to any substance in the vaccine”
GiggidyGoo tried this crap when the HPV vaccine was being rolled out in schools. Good to see folks calling the Goomeister out on this.
@BB. Tell me why would two nurses who, we are told, had to carry such EpiPens…why would they endanger themselves? Were they even told about the dangers? Does each vial come with instructions?
and
Plus the MHRA now advise
“Resuscitation facilities should be available at all times for all vaccinations. Vaccination should only be carried out in facilities where resuscitation measures are available.” An EpiPen isn’t a ‘facility’
You’re not the sharpest BB.
Well I’m asked that same question which I answer penicillin, but that doesn’t stop me from getting treatment, including injections, other antibiotics etc.
They’re only finding out now that there may be some reaction, after the fact.
You must also realize that there have been thousands of shots given so far and two people have had bad reactions. So the fact that they are putting out this kind of warning shows how careful they want to be.
This is unfortunate though, as it will be food for anti-vax lunatics and general anti-science sentiment and we really need a high uptake of this vaccine to drive the virus out.
Somehow, not for this. though. Otherwise those two NHS workers wouldn’t have taken it.
Plus the MHRA now advise….
“Resuscitation facilities should be available at all times for all vaccinations. Vaccination should only be carried out in facilities where resuscitation measures are available.”
Really? So a flu vaccination (they said ‘all’) requires Resuscitation facilities? Can you ask your knowledgeable GP if he has such facilities? Mine hasn’t.
Don’t take the vax then. Its real simple. Or else make a song and dance on social media…. oh sorry, you did. Go on, Queen or the republic?
As someone here recently said: “Vaccines cause adults”
…damn you Cian…I was saving that one!
@antiyokie. Highly intelligent response. Go to the top of the class and join Britnboxy. You were made for each other.
@Cian – you never had one then? BTW – the new recruits are making a hames of it for FG. Must have been trained by your good self then.
@Cian – you have successfully got a certain anti-vax wickle Shinner baba in a spin. Giggidy has already called me a Brit, a unionist, a SCU FGer, a vaccine guinea pig, a Sinn Fein stalker…I love it!
@GiggidyGoo
I’m not sure what you mean, but based on your form here I feel the expected response is to talk about “deflection” and (more recently) “living rent-free in your head” and to insult you.
But I shall refrain.
Well, Cian, you chose to comment under a thread of mine with a smart answer. So i’ve no problem replying with a smart answer back. I don’t remember posting about living rent free in your head. Maybe I did, but i’m sure you have a link if so. Unless you were posting under a different name?
Well, Britnboxy. I’m sure you have links to where I’ve done these to you…
Called you a unionist,
Called you SCU FGer,
Called you vaccine guinea pig, a
Called you Sinn Fein stalker
Over to you – I can wait.
Tut tut tut. You’ll have to read back over your own drivel Gippidypoo. I’ll bet you do it anyway.
No link then?
Lack of intelligence has been, and will always be your downfall.
Under your anti-vax rock please hun, now.
If you can’t go down the intelligent route, maybe Anger Management might do the trick. You’re suffering. Ease up there lad. Troddle along.
Lol. I’m not sure I am the one who needs the anger management classes my dear anti-vax Gippidygoo. Ever considered it?
*** pops head around the door ***
Yup, they’re still fighting amongst each other
*** closes door quietly and saunders off with a jaunty stride and merry whistle ***
@Salmons.
What is ‘saunders’?
@Charage I am beginning to think it was something I said to GiggidyGoo. Can’t think what ;-p
@GiggidyGoo
yeah I posted here with a relevant “smart answer”.
You chose to take that and distract, deflect and insult (which is your standard response).
And yes, you have thrown that “rent free” accusation at me (I don’t feel special since you have thrown it at just about everyone else):
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/11/29/mondays-papers-59/#comment-2270172
and no, I don’t post under other names. Do you?
Fair enough. I didn’t remember that.
However, it must be true then, seeing as you opened the thread with a comment about me and not the item, and could provide the link so quickly.
No, I use just the one name here.
@Cian +1 And anti-vaxxers cause annoying wickle Shinner babas like GiggidyGoo to rant and rave when you call them out on their dangerous nonsense. Like the HPV vaccine roll out, they’ll lose this one too.
Lol. Well, GiggidyGoo over half of Shinners claim they won’t take the vaccine so I guess you as (self-proclaimed) head of the Shinner Special Communications Unit are leading the anti-VAX movement. At least you’re consistent.
Beetlejuice beetlejuice beetlejuice. Tim But Dim, my personal stalker awakens.
There there there. Don’t worry. Mummy will tuck you back in and read you your favorite nursery rhyme.
ROFL.
You tried this around the time of the HPV vaccine so I guess history is repeating itself. No luck there but off you go again.
Beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice! Anti-VAX wickle Shinner Baba. There, there.
And there you have it – I posted nothing about the HPV Vaccine, anywhere. Britnboxk has now officially joined the Mitty band of brothers.
Unless, of course, you can provide a link – which you can’t of course.
Toddle/Troll = new word. Troddle. Troddle along there lad. Lack of intelligence has been, and will always be your downfall.
So let me get this right: the intelligent position is to denigrate those who take the vaccine as “guinea pigs” while you bash out anti-vax nonsense from the comfort of your bedsit before your night shift starts? Got it.
No link then?
Thought not.
@GiggidyGoo – tell me, from the comfort of your bedsit and before the night shift, what is/was your position on the HPV vaccine? Very easy to clear this up, no?
It’s very easy to clear up. You wrote “You tried this around the time of the HPV vaccine …”
To easiest way to clear it up (you made the statement) is to provide a link to where I ‘tried’ it.
So, like a good little boy then……clear it up. It’s yours.
As I wrote above… “Lack of intelligence has been, and will always be your downfall.”
What a dangerous angry anti-vax wickle Shinner baba you are! You can’t even bring yourself to endorse the HPV vaccine. As I said, history is repeating itself and off you go again trying to spread your muck about the Covid vaccine. Take a bow clever clogs.
No link then? Own what you wrote, or continue to dig.
Worth repeating.
Lack of intelligence has been, and will always be your downfall.
Troddle along.
Being an angry anti-vax wickle Shinner baba ain’t that intelligent Giggy. I’m too polite to tell you what to do with your anti-vax lies but do crawl back under your rock.
No link then? Quelle surprise.
Lack of intelligence has been, and will always be your downfall.
Didn’t I tell you to crawl back under your rock Gooey? You danced to my tune today. So do one and please use your fevered imagination as to where I advise you to stick your anti-vax lies and crap.
Do you even read what you write? Getting a bit agitated there lad.
Lack of intelligence has been, and will always be your downfall. Live with it. Troddle along. ROFL.
Under your anti-vax rock please hun.
Ha! You refuse resolutely to crawl back under your rock. Own your anti-vaccination stance. It will make you feel better. Kind of!
A Person is missing you. You can both be unintelligent together. You’re getting very aerated. Calm down. Have a spoon of medicine. Tsk tsk.
I would have thought you of all anti-vaxxers view medicine as the devil’s work Gobbidygoop.
It has been fun (at least for me), let’s do it again some day!
@ GiggidyGoo Did none of the guinea pigs have an allergic reaction during the tests?
My understanding is that the animal testing phase was completely bypassed?
Your understanding is wrong. (colour me unsurprised)
?
Developing a traditional vaccine safely takes a decade or more. It seems important to ask WHICH safety steps were bypassed in order to develop a new kind of vaccine in just a few months- don’t you think?
Developing a traditional vaccine safely takes a decade or more.
DO you have any evidence to support this?
There are, for example, multiple flu vaccines developed each and every year.
My understanding is wrong how? Were animal trials bypassed or not?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine
According to the European Medicines Agency (EMA), animal testing is not always part of the process. It’s an optional step, not a requirement.: “The vaccine developer conducts more studies in laboratory models, using in vitro studies or animal models (in vivo studies), to show how the vaccine triggers an immune response and works to prevent infection. Finally, the vaccine developer studies the vaccine in three phases of clinical trials, with larger numbers of volunteers in each phase.”
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines/covid-19-vaccines-development-evaluation-approval-monitoring
@SOQ
My understanding is wrong how? Were animal trials bypassed or not?
[+ link to wikipedia that says “Clinical studies have utilized such viruses on a range of diseases in model animals such as mice, chicken and primates”]
You are the “expert”. Either back up your ‘facts’ or GTF.
“What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
@Bertie
“optional” doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
“The Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine has stirred controversy online for having been tested on animals. ”
https://plantbasednews.org/news/science/covid-19-vaccine-tested-on-animals/
…what…Cian quoting Christopher Hitchens…does Josepha Madigan know about this?
Oh I know Cian. I was thinking more along the lines that if a stage is optional then not doing it is not the same thing as bypassing it which could be interpreted to mean it was skipped.
I heard one patient had a seizure and bit their tongue off.
it turned me into a newt.
**stares at Nigel**
He got better.
I saw Goody Osburn with the devil!
I heard one came back and opened a gate of hell so our dark lord Baphomet (May his name be praised) could retake his rightful place among us.
Fact.
on my lap ?
great name for a cat
And so it begins, thankfully I’m 2nd last on the list of priorities for this particular role of the dice/Russian roulette, I’m certainly not anti-vac but am firmly in the sceptical camp.
well broadbag, I’m with you on this one, this is not a binary situation by any means
yes, some folks will be clamouring to slurp it up with zeal in the belief that, in taking it, all will be solved instantly, badge of honour, wahey
yes, some folks will rail against taking it stating every conspiracy you couldn’t even make up with zeal, badge of honour, wahey
BUT
there’s also plenty of normal folks hesitant out of a bit of critical thought who have concerns about taking a vaccine in these specific circumstances and want to know the mature known story about it before offering their arm or their children’s arms
end of day it’s a personal choice
I’m in no rush anyway
The problem is, if everyone thought that way we would be stuck with covid 19 lockdowns for years! I want to get back to normal a.s.a.p. Our economies and job markets need this vaccine and normal life to restart very badly. I listened to the head of BioNtech on the BBC world news radio station. They went through every single hurdle they faced, and also the sheer number of scientists working on it, and all of the investment in new technology. That’s why they succeeded so fast, they also followed testing guidelines/ Huge amounts of public money went into these vaccines from many countries.
I will take the vaccine when it becomes possible, because we all need to get back to normal real soon.
I need to sit down and do a lot of reading on it, thankfully I have plenty of time to do so before it will be available to me. I won’t be giving too much weight to info from heads of pharma companies who will be profiting from producing it, be that monetary profit or worldwide acclaim, nor to crackpots spouting conspiracy theories. I currently am yet to be convinced that rushing a vaccine is a great idea, no matter the consequences of going at it in a slow and steady approach. The fact that so many companies seem to have managed it in less than a year and within weeks of each other rings many alarm bells for me, no matter the scale of the resources they were drawing from.
Why does that surprise you?
The process for all companies is the same:
1. Exploratory stage
2. Pre-clinical stage
3. Clinical development
4. Regulatory review and approval
The labs would be regularly doing stuff in stages 1&2 – looking for the new vaccines (there are 4+ flu vaccines created and brought all the way to sale each year) these steps would have the biggest variance in time. But once they have a prototype the rest is basically fixed time-frame:
3. Clinical development is a three-phase process.
3.1 Phase I, small groups of people receive the trial vaccine.
3.2 Phase II, the clinical study is expanded and vaccine is given to people who have characteristics (such as age and physical health) similar to those for whom the new vaccine is intended.
3.3 Phase III, the vaccine is given to thousands of people and tested for efficacy and safety.
Each phase is a fixed length.. and with COVID the companies can ensure that there is minimal delays between each phase – that the appropriate people are waiting to sign-off to move to the next phase.
Last phase – regulatory – the regulators are ready and waiting to review the data from the trials. So there is minimal lost here.
I would really like to know how many other vaccines were started and never got to phase 1 or phase 2 or phase 3 testing. for example (numbers pulled out of thin air) 40 vaccines started phase 1 testing, only 20 went into phase 2, only 10 went into phase 3:
@Cian. So they all did everything in unison or what? Are you saying that each of these vaccines had a set timeline of, say 11 months, to be made from scratch, even though they are different formulas? Each stage lasts the same length of time?
@GiggidyGoo
The stages are:
1. Exploratory stage
2. Pre-clinical stage
3. Clinical development
4. Regulatory review and approval
#1 ans #2 will be different for everyone – this is where the develop the vaccine – but they are all following a similar path/plan/pattern of development (I don’t know how much, if any, sharing on info there was either between universities or companies). Equally small labs with (possible) breakthroughs were bought out larger companies to do stages #3 & #4.
#3 (which is the various trials and usually the longest stage) and #4 are going to be the same for everyone;
It seems odd they all finish at the same time – but they started at the same time with the same problem.
Yes it seems odd alright. Different products, different scientists, different methods, yet all manage to hit the jackpot at the same time.
well as I wrote above…that’s your personal choice and sincerely good for you Junkface
Maybe read up on the vaccine from well established scientific journals? Here is the NEJM
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2032195?query=recirc_mostViewed_railB_article
That’s The New England Journal of Medicine by the way, where the scientific community examine each others work, so you know, better than rumors and 2nd hand stories from Facebook about the vaccine.
I’ve no intention of indulging this
it’s caused enough carnage here as it is
let people make their own health choices in private n’all that
But last night I was watching some of the news coverage of the roll out
think it was C4 news, most likely anyway
But it clearly showed blood flowing, more than you would see from a Flu vax over the counter in the chemist’s shop
Which is usually just a dot of blood, if that
So it reminded me of that BCG – which if anyone has watched how it is administered, and the afters
plus the scar, will know that different vaccinations are all very different
Again, its none of my business what decision people for themselves and or their babies about the BCG
but it did make me wonder if this particular Vax – the Pfizer one, will leave the same scar, like permanent marker I suppose
Also with the BCG, which if anyone has witnessed it – has a vicious mean administration method, but for it to work, it must produce a reaction on the arm/ admin location – like an open sore or a wound, hence the life long mark. If there is no reaction, then it hasn’t taken, and the Community Health nurse / set up must be advised, and the records updated.
so,
Anyone?
FYI the BCG hasn’t been part of the national vaccination programme since 2015.
https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/news/bcg2018.html
Good public service announcement there C!an (‾◡◝)
but by 2015 my days of having to think about it were well over
by at least 10 years
Hi V: these kind of scars are really associated with two vaccines, Smallpox and BCG. Smallpox vaccine in the form it was used up to the 1970s is now stopped, as smallpox was eradicated, and BCG has essentially stopped largely because of production problems in Denmark. Smallpox was a fantastically potent vaccine, and the scar was associated with the immune response–I’ve been told (but haven’t seen data to back it up) that scarring was associated with evidence of protection. During vaccination campaigns for smallpox eradication vaccinators would target people without a scar (no need for a vaccine certificate!) BCG is a very peculiar vaccine, what it protects against is rather uncertain. In that case I think the scar is evidence of administration, but not necessarily evidence of potentcy.
None of the mainstream vaccines currently in development (cannot speak for the Chinese or Russian stuff) is based on technology that will lead to scarring as part of mode of action (not the mRNAs, the adenoviruses nor the inactivated vaccines) (euh, unless you have a misadministration followed by an abcess, but that would would be down to an administration error rather than the vaccine per se).
Do you think shortcuts have been taken in the development of the mRNA technology alick?
Vaccines Are 95% Effective but the Covid survival rate is 99.997%
Do vaccines actually increase the death rate?
Wrong. New Jersey has had 0.2% of it’s total population (1 in 500) die with Covid in the last 10 months.
not 0.2% of the people infected….0.2% of the total population.
That is not a counter-argument to the above statement.
1,566,244 deaths (from: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-maps-and-cases/) is 0.020608473684211% of 7,600,000,000 (current world population)
These vaccines seem lethal….