Sinn Féin Senator Paul Gavan
Yesterday.
Seanad Eireann.
During a debate on the Sinn Féin-sponsored Safe Access to Termination of Pregnancy Services Bill 2021, which would ensure ‘free and unencumbered access to facilities providing legal termination of pregnancy services’, Pro-Life Senator Ronan Mullen said:
“When the Bill was first introduced in November, part of the justification cited for its introduction was supposedly intimidatory protests outside abortion facilities in Limerick city instigated, it was claimed, by abortion opponents.
“My colleague, with whom I get on with very well personally, Senator [Paul] Gavan, repeated that allegation and more today when he talked about people targeting other people who are going into facilities to access abortion.
“…I must say to Senator Gavan that it is one thing to say that on the basis of information he believes to be correct, but one month after the Senator said what he said in December 2021, the University of Limerick Hospitals Group issued a public statement confirming that they had received no complaints about protests outside the hospital.
“The hospital spokesperson acknowledged that they were “satisfied that there is no issue with regard to safety of access at University Maternity Hospital Limerick”. It was not just the Garda Commissioner, it was also the Limerick hospital.
“I would have expected then that Senator Gavan would correct the record, but I recall no effort being made to correct the record by Senator Gavan or others who disseminated the false and unfounded allegations against, let us call them, the pro-life supporters in the first instance. I wonder if this is because it suits a political agenda to allow a lie to go halfway around the world because the truth will still not have its boots on?”
[After prolonged argument across the chamber]
Senator Paul Gavan said:
“The specific issue Senator Mullen raised was in relation to University of Limerick Hospitals Group and its statement. I have nothing to apologise for. I have no reason to correct the record of the House because what the hospitals group said was that it did not record any complaints. We know a great number of complaints were made – indeed, the people in the Chamber today are witnesses to those complaints. Therefore, there is no need for me to correct the record of the House. I must say on the record that in the six years I have been here I have never accused anyone in this Chamber of telling lies. I am disgusted such a charge was made against me today.”
Anyone?
Previously: Limerick hospital group says it has no record of anti-abortion protests
If nothing else, I think we can all agree that Ronan Mullen is an odious person who’d gladly drag us back to the dark ages if given half-a-chance.
I loathe the man – but in this instance is Gavan not in the wrong? Why is he doubling down?
It is strange.
I couldn’t give two tugs of a dead dog’s appendage, anyone seeking to hinder access to these services should be run out of town on a rail.
Those monsters had their time, we’re done with them.
The mindset of the totalitarian persecutor. The “monsters” are people praying or quietly protesting outside of abortion clinics. No one is being harassed, it seems, at least not now. But that will change when their right to peaceful assembly is violated and the gardai come calling. Your problem is not with harassment, you seem fine with it once “the monsters” are the ones being harassed.
Not being allowed to intimidate pregnant women is a far way from being harassed.
The hospital has no record. That doesn’t mean people didn’t make complaints to them, just that they didn’t bother doing anything about it. Allegedly, the dates when abortions are being carried out are being passed on to antichoice groups so they can protest with their rosaries and goreporn.
Could you imagine if groups protesting religious abuse turned up outside Sunday masses showing pictures of the torn and bruised genitals of raped and abused children?
The hospital has no record of any complaints, which means it has no record of any complaints.
On protesting outside of Mass: people should be free to do so as they wish once public order etc. is preserved.
Doxxy, the point being made is that Sinn Féin used the apparent anger at the Limerick protest to promote the need for their bill.
Pro choice groups have been calling for this bill for years. Sinn Fein latching on to a popular campaign is nothing new – they’re not leading it.
See: https://gript.ie/hospitals-say-no-reports-of-pro-life-protesters-harassing-women/
Antichoice Youth Defence blog.
From late last year: No ‘official’ complaints, hospital received ‘third-party’ correspondence, reference to the fact that ‘…there might have been one or two women outside the hospital saying prayers with rosary beads occasionally, but they would only be there for a few minutes and then leave…”
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-hospital-group-says-it-has-no-record-of-anti-abortion-protests-1226146.html
Evidently some bead rattlers have been sighted.
Loveboats back in action! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGkaJeZXMAIsZxm?format=jpg
It’s all a long way from the type of activity that should be tolerated in a secular republic as envisioned by Tone and Emmet. While Pearse, whose English Protestant father may have been influenced in his conversion to Catholicism by the realisation that he’d be in with a shout of securing lucrative contracts from the Catholic church for his sculptural abilities, did muddy the Republican message somewhat with his pious overlayings, and the unctious De Valera polluted it in a nakedly sectarian manner, the fact remains that in a secular republic worthy of the name no religious grouping should be permitted to impose or to attempt to impose its religious beliefs on the politics of the state or upon any other citizens. Presumably most Irish people want a secular republic and not a theocracy.
so very well said
Elegantly put.
@Fearganainm
In the photo I see four women chatting on a footpath outside a hospital. Seems a bit much to interpret it as “imposing religious beliefs on citizens” which would imply that they have the power to coerce the behaviour of others.
In a secular, pluralist society anyone should have the right to hold religious beliefs and to impart their thoughts and information to others. Provision is made for it under international law – the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (to which Ireland is a signatory)
“Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching.(Article 18)”
“Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice. (Article 19) As an international treaty, the ICCPR is legally binding on its signatories.”
https://secularpolicyinstitute.net/the-right-to-freedom-of-religion-belief-and-expression-in-international-law/
The ‘lurkers’ do not have the right to attempt to shame, intimidate, annoy or otherwise beset people availing of hospital services. Some of the people using those services will be experiencing enough personal trauma without being accosted by zealots.
If the protestors have genuine belief in the power of prayer then they can get down on their knees at home or in their places of worship and pray as much as they like. If they believe that they have a right to influence policies then they can either contact or lobby their political representatives wherever they can find them.
Hospitals are not the workplaces of those who frame our legislation and pleading a ‘right’ to act like a religious fundamentalist outside a hospital or clinic tells its own story.
They have the right to practice their religion, with all its attendant rites, rituals and ceremonies. They do not have the right to try to annoy other people with their religious beliefs, particularly in a medical environment.
exactly this, keep your god to yourself
No one’s condoning outright harassment but when you start including “the right not to be annoyed” into your frame of reference, it’s entering absurd territory.
I think part of living in any tolerant, pluralistic society inevitably means being exposed to – or even confronted by – the views of others which might be very much at odds with our own set of beliefs. I mightn’t agree with a person who believes every woman who chooses to have an abortion is misguided and should be talked out of it, but I can appreciate that their beliefs can be heartfelt and motivated by a genuine desire to do good in the world as they see it. (And for what it’s worth, I ‘m not a religious person).
Sounds like you’ve got quite a sectarian mindset to me. A sense of moral and intellectual superiority over that religious lot who should know their place and stay in their box. Secular sectarianism?
Just to be clear, are you really trying to justify the harassment of people attending medical appointments? Can you suggest any appropriate circumstances in which persons attending or leaving medical appointments are ‘fair game’ for a spot of hectoring/shaming/intimidating/humiliating/proselytising?
Hospital/clinic attendees are not where they are because they are looking for a debate.
The fundamentalists who target them are utterly disgusting.
What can I say to that except that reads as a childish response.You appear to be unwilling or unable to meaningfully engage with my points of view so instead you’ve descended into hyperbole and attempts to misrepresent with ridiculously loaded questions that aren’t really questions. Don’t see where this interaction can go from here. Think I’m done. Good evening.
You were done when you attempted a defence of the fanatics who target vulnerable people.
Anti-abortion protests have taken place across at least 10 counties despite Department of Health claims that there have been “limited” reports of demonstrations.
Research currently being carried out by Maynooth University in collaboration with the Together for Safety Campaign has found that anti-abortion campaigners have targeted GP surgeries and clinics in Cork, Donegal, Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Louth, Roscommon, Tipperary, Waterford, and Wicklow.
There have also been protests outside maternity hospitals in Galway, Cork, Drogheda, and Dublin since abortion services were rolled out.
Protests were reported outside Limerick Hospital on 17 days in February and March, when the country was under level 5 lockdown.
Camilla Fitzsimons of NUI Maynooth, who is involved in a questionnaire of healthcare workers to establish the extent of anti-abortion protests nationwide, said she has received reports of demonstrators praying loudly, holding up graphic placards, and distributing leaflets outside healthcare facilities.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40365200.html [Mon, 23 Aug, 2021]