Another reported death in homeless services under tragic circumstances has become evident today. This is unacceptable. pic.twitter.com/9fp8PJ8T0Y
— Anthony Flynn (@AnthonyICHH) September 6, 2017
A suspected suicide at St Peter’s Place, a Depaul hostel in the YMCA building off Aungier Street, Dublin 2.
More as we get it.
Don’t worry, someone will report that s/he has a criminal record so it’s okay.
You have to admit you were a little less sorry for “Jack” in that individual case.
Homeless people are still people.
Yes, they are people. It is heart-breaking for those left behind.
But people die all the time, both homeless and, what, homed?
80+ people died yesterday in Ireland. And 80+ the day before. 80+ will die today.
Who knew it was wrong to think it’s bad for people to die homeless?
“80+ people died yesterday in Ireland.”
Did they all die in the same circumstances?
“79 people who live in houses have died yesterday – when will the government step in and do something?”
“Did they all die in the same circumstances?”
what do you think?
The issue here is about homeless people dying. You say “But people die all the time,” implying that we either shouldn’t feel obligated to feel sympathy or that there isn’t much we can do about it because, as you said “But people die all the time,”. Correct? Clearly I am implying that if lots of people are dying under the same circumstances, we can do something about those circumstances.
“79 people who live in houses have died yesterday – when will the government step in and do something?”
As we can see, Rob here is clearly implying that homeless people dying is not a problem the government should be expected to deal with. My point, Cian, is that this attitude is unehelpful and not grounded in reality.
Let me get this right. You’re saying that if the 80 people who died yesterday, died under the same circumstances, we can do something about those circumstances?
Methinks you’ve been watching too many Zombie films and are already acclimatised to the idea.
Are you actually going to say that if 80 people died under the same circumstances, there is nothing anyone can do?
it really depends on the circumstance doesn’t it?
You can’t die of “homelessness”.
You can die of malnutrition or suicide though. Someone DID die of suicide last week. Being homeless can make people feel pretty worthless. Feeling pretty worthless has direct consequenes on your physical health and on your mental health. It can also lead to suicide.
“You can die of malnutrition or suicide though. ”
Yes. Or you could die of Coronary heart disease, Heart attack, Lung cancer, COPD, Pneumonia, Stroke, Dementia, Breast cancer, Alzheimer’s disease, or Colon cancer.
Half of the people that died yesterday died of one of these 10 causes.
Look. As I said above, it is awful when people die. But if you have 8,000 homeless people then, statistically, 54 of them will die in any given year. Unless more than 35 homeless people have died this year to date then it is just coincidence.
 statistically – as these are the top 10 causes of death.
“Yes. Or you could die of…blah blah blah”
If you’re just going to ignore what I said, I’ll repeat it. Being homeless has a direct consequence on your physical and mental health. This can lead to death. Therefor, being homeless can lead to death. The woman who died in the Leixlip hotel last week committed suicide because of her situation according to those closest to her. That is someone who died as a direct result of being homeless. If you don’t want to do anything about the problem, fine, but shame on you for denying the problem even exists.
Repeat after me: “Correlation does not imply causation”.
I know nothing of the woman in Leixlip that took her own life. I don’t know what her circumstances were. The only thing I know is that she was homeless. But that does NOT mean homelessness killed her.
Repeat after me ‘Correlation does not necessarily imply causation’. You need to learn how to make coherent arguments rather than spouting slogans you clearly don’t understand. If you don’t know anything about the Leixlip woman’s circumstances, google them. You are on the internet. She killed herself because of her despair over her situation. Being homeless killed her. If you don’t want to help solve the problem, fine, but shame on you for trying to deny the problem even exists.
Cian, the fact is she died while homeless. Such deaths are going to stand out starkly while the homeless crisis is ongoing. They represent a very real fear of how the thousands currently homeless are going to cope as this goes on and on, not to mention the horror of people at risk of also becoming homeless. Those are part of the circumstances in which she died.
Of course she was also part of the ongoing suicide epidemic in this country, just to pile horror on horror.
I don’t want to make any assumption about this poor woman because I don’t know her circumstances. But, according to ‘the internet’ she had been allocated a house by South Dublin County Council.
Her homelessness was at an end. She was getting a house for herself and her two kids.
If you only did a tiny bit more Googling, you’d have seen that she was offered a run down house full of squatters and she, understandably, didn’t want to bring up her children in it. A short time later, she killed herself. She died because she was homeless. You are still trying to deny it and only for your own ego. Disgusting.
I’m not arguing homelessness caused her death, Cian. It can’t possibly have been good for her mental health, though, and the fact that she got a house, well, it just underlines how vulnerable these people can be and how much damage can be inflicted on them and how help can ome too late.
Moyst – are you seriously trying to tell me that the Council would hand her the keys to a “run-down house full of squatters”? Because I call bull!
Don’t worry Cian. You’re being attacked by the vindictive troll who described the involvement in the accidental death of someone whose relative is a political figure as a “great find” here last week. Just so you know what level you’re at.
“Because I call bull!”
Of course you call bull. You can’t hack dealing with facts that contradict your selfish view of the world. You’d rather deny reality. Shameful.
Ok, you show me a fact that supports your assertion that the council were giving “run-down house full of squatters” to that woman (namely that she would receive a run-down house, with the squatters in-situ).
Read that sentence again. You are asking me to give you a fact about a fact. That doesn’t make any sense gramatically or conceptually. Your anger is so strong, you are incoherent. If you had any real interest or human compassion, you’d research that for yourself but you just want to win an argument online…over the death of a homeless woman…because you don’t want to accept there is a national crisis….and you’re not even directly affected. You want to deny the problems of people when it affects you in no way. Shameful.
I heard Mr. Watson or whatever name he was using was serving food in Apollo House, presumably to families living there. Usually you would need Garda clearance for that. Lets hope that Home Sweet Home giving a convicted pedophile with access to children didn’t result in any further crimes. This is why this kind of thing is best left to reputable charities and agencies.
“food” you say?
I wonder when we’re going to find out what they did with the €170K that people gave.
There are convicted rapists and paedophiles living in luxury in this country. Should part of their sentence include being rendered homeless? Did Jack deserve death for what he did? Two other people died the same week. Have you looked into their pasts to see if they deserved it too?
“Did Jack deserve death for what he did?”
– I’d say that that girl he intentionally infected with HIV probably feels he did, yes.
Is there anything to suggest that he would still be alive today if didn’t sleep outside on a mild night in August? Homeless services were in contact with him that evening and offered him a bed; short of forcibly detaining every homeless person each night, there is not much that you can do to stop people sleeping rough.
Infect a girl with HIV??? Can you back that up?
Can we start chucking “our own” sex offenders on to the street or into hostels and giving their houses to decent people. That will solve the housing crisis in a week.
Just google “Homeless man found dead in Dublin city centre was convicted paedophile who wilfully passed HIV to a woman”
That’ll get you there Declan.
“Is there anything to suggest that he would still be alive today if didn’t sleep outside on a mild night in August?”
No which totally means this whole homeless thing is being blown way out of proportion by liberal virtue signallers who are only trying to make the rest of us look bad with this phony “compassion” nonsense they pretend to have.
Kinda fun to think of the sort of people preying on vulnerable homeless men women and children. No, not fun. The opposite. Seriously do you honestly think this guy everyone was sad about dying homeless turning out to be a monster does anything other than highlight how ugly this crisis really is?
Rereading that post is pretty cringey now, especially the ‘heart of gold who offered to show everyone around, beauty of his character’ stuff. Wonder if he was particularly interested in showing around new arrivals who looked particularly young, female and vulnerable.
As Nigel says though, nobody’s coming out of this looking good. And it’s easy for keyboard knobs like me to comment. It can’t be easy balancing care for the vulnerable with background-check pragmatism.
For any rational person the discovery of his past should in no way change your opinion of the crisis.
My sympathies for this man dying did wane when the stories began to come out. I feel no shame in that and believe anyone who denies it changed for them is lying tbh.
Height of ignorance on your part in quoting from Rupert Murdoch’s “The Sun” if you think it’s some kinf of pillar of truth.
You’re a first class clown but I’ll wish you well with your future education. It’ll be a better world for all of us.
Joe, I know the Irish Times has lost its role as the paper of record, but it is reporting this too:
No concern whatsoever for other volunteers and vulnerable people affected
“I am sick. I am disgusted. I feel like such a fool,” said Keira Gill who gave out food and hot drinks to Watson and other homeless individuals from tables on the street through her charity, A Lending Hand. “I am sickened that the authorities knew about his crimes and we didn’t.”
Fair enough I now at this time stand corrected.
However I was referring to @Rob_G’s use of “The Sun” as a source of truth. The Irish Times is substantially more reliable.
“No concern whatsoever for other volunteers and vulnerable people affected”
A cheap shot to try and stick the knife in and it’s a very weak argument.
Was jack a peado?
Spudnick if you enjoy a good cringe, you should read the glowing eulogies for “pillars of the community” like Alan Hawe!
Yeah that stuff was maddening.
What? Do you mean like Tom Humphries of the Irish Times?
Did anyone say “paedophile”?
Are you accusing this person of being a pedophile?
Are you that easily triggered? Seriously?
‘Triggered’ is a psychological term for people experiencing PTSD. I’m respondong to what appears to be an asinine joke of some sort posted under a story about a woman who committed suicide. You seem to think there’s something wrong with finding that comment objectionable though you are only capable of formulating your own response with the current clichés of the alt right. To which I can only say: are you that easily led? Seriously?
Gay is a word signifying someone who is merry and joyous and oh wait language changes and that entire paragraph was wasted time.
Are we not supposed to pay attention to how and why language is changing and note the effects, 0articularly when it’s something as lazy and stupid as above? Seems quite an interesting subject to me. Certainly more interesting than Bookworm’s actual comment.
Careful Nigel, you might be called a “cuck” next…
-Whatever Trump’d up thesaurus that one came from idk?..
Oh – you WERE triggered!
In fact unless you wanted to give the argument more attention why didn’t you just ignore it?
You’re in here very much playing the online bullyboy every single day of the week purposely looking for folks to wind up. Give it a rest tulip.
I’m sorry, did someone make an argument? I saw an asinine pedophile joke under a story about a woman committing suicide and someone using a lazy alt-right cliche to suggest that finding the comment objectionable was somehow unreasonable. Bit late to defensively accuse others of bullying and wind-ups when you’ve already demonstrated your qualities.
Nigel, I don’t know if you’re deliberately trolling but the phrase trigger is not an alt-right thing. AFAIK it came to prominence from the left “snowflake” (in quotes deliberately) requesting trigger warnings for material in colleges that might upset minorites.
Never too late to call out an online bully to his face. Who the actual fupp are you to regulate speech in this forum?
Do you know or have you ever seen anything about the history of the term PTSD?
The fact that you are using a pschiatric term instead of something like “you’re angered” or “I’ve wound you up” shows that you have fallen into the same trap.
The intentional dampening down meaning of terminology and it’s impact on people’s conciousness so as to reduce the percieved effect of what is really happening at the expense of people who are actually triggered from having suffered from PTSD thanks to all the psycholigical damage from being in wars.
You’re being unwittingly coerced and manipulated into helping the age old process along…
That was the first change in usage, it was then co-opted by the alt right for mockery, and now SJW types love to throw it back at alt rights when they get outraged about something. I wasn’t deliberately trolling but I wasn’t being exhaustive either.
I’m sorry you think I’m regulating your speech, Bookworm. I’m sorrier still you can’t think of anything intelligent to say with your speech.
It’s disgusting that when called out on your persisting with trolling and online bullying all you can resort to is more of the same. Got any yer ma jokes?
Having a vigil for a convicted paedophile might well be a joke to you Nigel and I’m ecstatic for you that you see the humour in it as you’re virtue signalling like bejaysus there, but it’s unlikely to be a joke for the dead man’s victim and their families
Yes because ‘Did anyone say ‘paedophile’ is such an expression of serious concern under a story about a person who committed suicide. Nice try at faking a concerned attitude while you try to hide your smirk. You mock people for holding a vigil while in as mother comment you attack commentetd by pretending to be concerned about homeless activists taken in by the guy, as if the people holding the vigil weren’t also taken in. I think you just like to be cruel.
‘In another comment.’ Feck my eyesight.
Again you’re coming in with the personalised attacks.
Not an ounce of concern expressed however for the vulnerable folks who might have come into contact with the convicted paedophile, and falsely identified deadbeat dad.
Where’s your baseball bat?
Funnily enough, I have expressed exactly that concern in at least two other comments. I’ll accept you apology now, thanks.
Can’t wait to see what type of socks leo wears to today’s Cabinet meeting, will he go for navy or for his favourite swastika motif..?
“We returned to our places, these Kingdoms,
But no longer at ease here, in the old dispensation,
With an alien people clutching their gods.
I should be glad of another death.”
Irrelevant, but the headline made me think of it.
it says that this was suicide. I still haven’t seen a cause of death for the previous 2 last week. Is there any particular reason for that?
because it’s none of our business?
Last week there was a barrage of posts about 2 homeless people dying on the streets as if it was being on the streets that killed them. At least that was the implication. You’re right, It is none of our business. Until the accusatory posts come flooding in and then it becomes a relevant detail.
Being homeless contributes to feelings of worthlessness which leads to depression which can lead to suicide, so yeah, being on the streets kills people. It’s truly surprising that grown adults cannot comprehend simple things like that.
So were the other two deaths suicide? I’m actually asking since I didnt see causes of death attached to any of the posts.
I’m not asking for a detailed cause and effect study like.
you’re right. I was being facetious.
I wonder is there any point in having another vigil for the dead paedophile?
well it would allow you and your fellow blushirts the opportunity to show up and state how your glad he’s dead and his death justifies your parties current neglect of the homeless – you are doing it in the hope that it might kill hundreds and some of those by be convicted sex offenders
Dammit. FG’s official secret homelessness policy have been rumbled. Indeed, homelessness only exists in Ireland when FG are in power. And there is no homelessness outside Ireland.
Focus Ireland in their 2006 [at the peak of the Celtic Tiger] Annual Report said:
“The past 15 years have been the most
prosperous in Ireland’s history. The annual
Wealth of the Nation report by the Bank
of Ireland shows Ireland per capita as the
second richest country in the world. It is a
sad indictment of successive Governments’
commitment to end poverty that
homelessness and the number of people
without a secure home has nearly doubled
over this time.
Official figures show over 43,000 households
on local authority housing waiting lists today
compared to 23,000 in 1991 – with some
5,000 people homeless in 2006 compared to
2,700 in 1991.”
How the hell did you deduce from that the posters political affiliation? You seem like a real Mensa candidate and seems like you’re not at all concerned a paedophile was roaming around the streets mingling with vulnerable folks.
What a nasty, vitriolic and vituperative response
You were organising the vigil?
I’m getting pretty ticked off with the hate speech I see being published here daily from 2/3 individuals
Can’t we just kill them all? That will clear up the homeless problem.
Ssshh.. don’t give away the long term game plan…
Are we the baddies?
Never… but not necessarily the good ones either…
Surely we’d all be better off if people with serious mental health issues, sexual offenders or not, were not roaming around the streets, unwatched and untreated? While people seem to be really enjoying the fact that a pedo died, alone on the streets, it doesn’t change the fact that there are so many people on the streets as a result of a chronic lack of funding for public services, mental health, drug rehab, etc.
After being in the US a few times over the last decade I can’t help seeing the parallels of the hundreds of unfortunates who roam the streets in most cities with what might become a much worse problem in Ireland. (On a side note without trying to be funny, it made me think about why the recent prevalence of zombie related media might be so popular as some kind of mainstream placebo. Bit of a stretch but no less disturbing)
In any context, regardless of being a model human being or the lowest creature to ever walk on two feet… Dead people on the streets is preventable and should not be tolerated as an unfortunate but acceptable part of any civilised society.
One other point for the “I heard he was a kiddy fiddler brigade”. Surprise, surprise, even paedophiles, hebophiles etc., whether offending or non-offending are still human beings.
In case you’re lacking perspective, plenty of child sexual and physical abusers die peacefully in their sleep after living a long and comfortable existence without having had to answer about anything to anyone.
“Dead people on the streets is preventable and should not be tolerated as an unfortunate but acceptable part of any civilised society.”
There are a lot of people out there who, at least subconsciously, think they’re the centre of the universe and take everything personally whether it’s a woman talking about misogyny, a black guy talking about racism or, evidently, anyone talking about homelessness being a societal problem. *They* don’t hate women so feminists are making noise about nothing. *They* don’t hate black people so there’s no real racism in Ireland (or America. People still actually say that) Recognising that homelessness is a problem makes them feel guilty so they don’t want to recognise there is a homeless problem. These kids of people also frequently seek power so we these feelings of insecurity become legislation. These people will always exist but we need to learn how to deal with them better.
*kinds of people
…so we “see” or “allow” these feelings… ?
Ye I hear ye, it’s true and It’s all about resposibility and being an active citizen who tries to hold the system to account.
It’s a simple choice, I don’t tolerate it not that I’m in any position of power or the powers that be want to get my opinion anytime soon.
In fact I’m baking a large custard-(It’s turd)-pie on the off chance I bump into Simon Coveny as a congratulatory gift on his new job in Foreign Affairs.
I can’t remember what his last job was… something about ending his miserable something or other… ??… I’m glad that he’s happy being allowed to play international statesman by the EU superstate. Fair play to them.
There are a lot of people out there who, at least subconsciously, think they’re the centre of the universe and Endlessly troll online looking for fights
Real homeless people with real problems miss out because people like that mother can not be just told “go away and cop on”.
“Mother.. go away and cop on”
-The oirish solution to child sex abuse right here folks….
If he is indeed guilty, which remains to be confirmed as fact outside of an always disturbing experience with “The Sun” rag of cheap slurs, then maybe he should have phoned or called into Irelands own progressively excellent, one of a kind, world class sexual counselling facility for preventative care, support and rehabilitation…
Oh wait… It was all just a dream…
Damn you nightime cough syrup and opiod addiction you’re starting to melt my brain!!…
Well Jack Dawson’s death sure took the spotlight away from the homeless crisis, that’s for sure. Was he Irish? Has he family and have they claimed his remains? And seeing that its leaked to press ( garda/ child protection services) what the hell …..you mean they are leaving an aids stricken , sex abuser with no fixed address roam all over Dublin and beyond without being tagged? Let him sleep in a children’s playground? Its very unfair be casting stones on the homeless because of this fatality…..a dirty political stroke.
1. The usual SJWs & opposition politicians trying to make currency out of the death of a homeless person is disgusting. They tried to do the same with Jonathan Corrie who had actually been given two homes by his family but sold them to feed his addictions. No one knows what the Australian man died from. Until the coroner announces that then everything is speculation, spin and an attempt to curry favor with voters.
2. The response to the above by those who, I don’t know, support the government or hate the charity industry or SJWs or are just plain a holes, is also completely disgusting. A man died. Regardless of the his past, his death deserves investigation and if it should have not happened (i.e. it wouldn’t have happened under meaningfully different circumstances) then something should be done about it.
The thing that bothers me is I feel superior to poor and homeless people , if they all end up dead I wont know where I stand in this society.
Very sad to hear. Peters place housed quite young adults. Death in service is always difficult as staff who were on shift will be grilled as to their vigilance, warning signs etc as will the deceased’s clinical team, if any. The homeless component may be a bit of a red herring if there’s a background of poor mental health or addiction present and access to services is restricted or unavailable. Homeless people have a very poor engagement with treatment services generally.
Very sad tho
I’m reading that its possibly FAKE news on Jack Watkins as research on his alleged convictions is not substantiated. If true , its mind boggling and evil. I got this link on twitter. R.I.P.
Maybe you should question your sources of news considering you’re completely wrong.
Irish Times has confirmed it (much to kitty Holland’s distaste as she questioned the veracity of the Sun reporter who got the story correct initially).
Oh I liked it when the commenter did that Donald Trump thing
Re above : – its on facebook “Ireland is not for sale” and tweets on revolution Ireland for those of you interested. Goodnight!
Fascinating. Where can I buy your book?
Some people bring candles.
Some f***ing A***holes bring firelighters.
Plus ca change…
I just wanted to add that we don’t know the full story of what this man was doing since he came back from Australia.
Sure, the fear of him re-offending here in Ireland and that it’s the most likely outcome is justifiable.
Is there any proof that he re-offended here in Ireland?
Is it possible that he was trying to make amends for his previous actions by being helpful to others?
Is it not also possible that his actions and his mental health are a direct byproduct of other factors like abuse to him, neglegt or a lack of healthcare and support at different times in his life?
The history of a man does not justify dismissing his death on the streets however difficult or damaging it may have been to others in the past.
If you accept one because of the other you are lazy-minded, callous and ignorant of more serious endemic problems.