Unity of Thought

at

Sinn Féin President Mary Lou McDonald

Earlier this summer, Ms McDonald said a poll on Irish unity should not be held while uncertainty around Brexit remains.

The following day, she said that in the event of a hard Brexit such a referendum would be “imperative.

This morning, Ms McDonald said that while such a poll being held in the event of the UK “crashing out” of the European Union would not be ideal, if Britain insisted on doing so there would have to be a referendum on Irish unity because the UK could not “inflict that level of damage on the country.”

Um.

Anyone?

Sinn Féin consistent over holding of unity poll – McDonald (RTÉ)

Rollingnews

Sponsored Link

38 thoughts on “Unity of Thought

          1. Happy Molloy

            fair enough. after how many years should one be able to move on, so I have a guide for future reference?

  1. George

    There is no contradiction here. If a hard Brexit happens the uncertainty will be gone.

    There is only uncertainty at the moment as we do not know what Brexit will actually mean.

    1. SOQ

      Agreed, there is no inconsistency from Mary Lou.

      SF have been arguing for a border poll for quite a long time but wisely adopted a wait and see approach once Brexit commenced. The recent survey from Queens University has confirmed what most thought, that upon a hard Brexit a majority would vote to leave the UK, leave * 2 if you like.

      Most outsiders do not get that despite the extremes making most noise, the middle (and growing) ground in NI are a lot more pragmatic and, by their sheer incompetence, brexiteers are turning what should be the next generation of moderate (read reasonable) NI unionists in the opposite direction.

      But there is another reason. Europe gave the north hope. That differing people could work for the common good. The EU certainly has its critics but its influence in NI has largely been a very positive experience, and not just because of money. I genuinely believe that if there is any semblance of borders again, this referendum will happen and it will be carried. That is the red line George.

        1. ReproButina

          Is it the Irish Republic? If so the GFA gives you a vote should there be a referendum on a united Ireland.

  2. john f

    I get the impression that Sinn Fein has jumped the gun on this. I can see a unity vote passing in the south by a reasonable margin but failing to pass in the North. Upper middle-class Catholics/nationalists will vote against unification.
    A rational person not weighed down by an ideology could compare and contrast the differences between the 2 jurisdictions.
    The health system here is broken beyond repair, the NHS model in Northern Ireland for the most part is functional. Other public services here like housing and not great either. Then there is the issue of public debt, for a head of population we are the 3rd most indebted country on the planet. We have a boom-bust economic model because of our globalised model and vulnerability to outside shocks.
    Northern Ireland by itself is an economic blackhole that runs of 14 billion+ deficit that every year that is presently subsidised by Westminster. How could we expect to make up that shortfall?
    Of course, demographic shifts will play a huge part in all that, at the risk of sounding vulger nationalists are breeding like rabbits in the North, soon they will be far more numerous than traditional unionists.
    Such a vote will only be held once per generation. If a vote was held in 5 years time I could see unification happening but at the moment probably not.

    1. Cian

      Did ya ever see that film: “the most fruitful man in Ireland”?

      ’twas about this fellah up North who discovers that his sperm could “impregnate a stone”. So he gets a job assisting infertile couples and test-tube babies (within the Catholic Community). But a Prod paramilitary headcase decides that since Catholics are outbreeding Protestants, he needs to stop and forcibly recruits him for a ‘numbers war’.

      https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0220652/

    2. Ollie Cromwell

      You seem confident a unity vote would pass in the Republic fairly easily.
      I know of no-one except perhaps some older Republicans who are the slightest bit interested in joining up with the can of worms that is NI.
      And in the last serious opinion poll carried out on both sides of the border there was precious little enthusiasm for a united Ireland.
      Even a majority of Catholics polled in the north were against the idea.
      This is all a bit like the Scottish referendum when the SNP were confident of victory but when people actually examined the economic consequences of what they were about to vote on a cold shiver went down their spine.
      It ain’t gonna happen any time soon ( and I’m someone who would be delighted if it did ).

      1. MaryLou's ArmaLite

        When you ask people, sane people, which way will you vote? They usually answer with a question, who will pay for NI, because we can’t afford it?

        1. SOQ

          It costs the British x so it will cost the Irish x so. Seriously?

          How much of the current 6 (not media 10) billion subvention is due to security? 4:1 NI:ROI police wage bill alone. Then there is the whole expensive military structure to be dismantled which is not even considering the family spreadsheet.

          1. Rob_G

            Do you think the security bill would go down, instead of up? Do you think that the type of people who will riot for 18 months over flegs are going to respect the workings of democracy in this instance and just join the Republic without a fuss?

          2. MaryLou's ArmaLite

            I never said costs would be the same. NI does not come close to sustaining itself and this is unlikely to change, someone had to pony up to keep it alive.

          3. SOQ

            Of course the security bill will go down. Britain will have no strategic interest in stoking the tribal unrest anymore. I think you are missing the (SDLP) point. Unite the people and the jurisdictions will follow.

            Unless the vote is a flowery aspiration like Brexit, in which case they will be entitled to vote again of course. At that point I may vote to remain, time will tell.

          4. Rob_G

            Currently, Northern Ireland’s public sector accounts for 30% of the workforce – can you not maybe envisage that, if many of these jobs disappeared overnight or were moved to Dublin, that this might create some friction in our new state?

            Would there still be a separate devolved parliament for the six counties, or would all the DUP lads be happy enough to go ot Dublin and swear allegiance to uphold Bunreacht na hÉireann?

            How do you think that the recent marriage equality and abortion referendums might have gone had there been an extra few hundred thousand religious zealots on the electoral rolls?

            “Britain will have no strategic interest in stoking the tribal unrest anymore”
            This has certainly been true in the past but these lads are more than capable of stoking tribal unrest amongst themselves

            “Unite the people and the jurisdictions will follow”. – how well did this strategy work out in the Balkans?

          5. SOQ

            Yes public sector is a big one but perhaps you are looking at it the wrong way around. Northern civil servants are way cheaper than their southern counterparts so instead of the current situation where most of the British social security applications are processed in the north, that work could equally be coming from the rest of Ireland. Likewise public health care provision. Northern people are well educated and skilled so instead of thinking of them as being a drain, in a growing economy they would be an asset.

            As for the DUP etc, some will leave but others will just get on with it. Some civil unrest from certain loyalist quarters would be expected but without the support of the British as previously, that would be a damp squid. As for marriage and abortion, a clear majority are in favour of both already so no real issues there.

            If enough people want it to happen, then it will. I see an east / west German situation panning out myself but I don’t think it even hangs on a no deal Brexit. If they tear up the GFA then all bets are off.

          6. Rob_G

            So, we should make the civil servants in Dublin redundant, and move the work to Belfast – I concede that this would be cost effective, but what kind of effect do you think would have among the few hundred thousand public sector workers in the south on the whole idea of Irish unity? Would the remaining public sector workers down here have to take a pay cut as well?

            Same-sex marriage and abortion have been decided in the 26 counties – are we going to issue a diktat to our brothers in the north, or do we allow them to have a poll as well?

            German unification was two parts of a country, which had been divided for less than 50 years, no history of violence between the two sides – Unionist/Loyalists have had a seperate identity for 400 years, and there is decades of violence between the two sides.

            Anyhow, i think the point is moot – a government here nearly collapsed over water charges of a few hundred euro per year; when every taxpayer in the state is presented with a €4k per annum ‘reunificiation solidarity tax’, I think reunification would be shelved

          7. SOQ

            On your first question I don’t know the answer but as that figure includes a better public health system, there is a skill set ready to be utilised.

            Marriage and abortion are being blocked by the DUP. Both are going to happen anyways.

            German unification had its own problems, not least that a sizeable amount of East still held communist views and the entire population were completely state dependant.

            Anyways, there is no harm in people discussing this issue because I would be very surprised if it is not part of the contingency plan for after a hard brexit.

      2. Papi

        Also, one must remember that nobody actually talks to charger, it’s just biro on his hand (also girlfriend, but that’s red biro)
        I believe the phrase is, get down on your knees and start snivelling.
        By all means, correct me if I’m wrong, pip pip!

    1. scottser

      The inland revenue doesnt release how much it takes in from the north, nor does the crown detail how much it spends there. Where are you getting 14bn per year from?

      1. Rob_G

        PJ is overestimating slightly (as johnny very helpfully pointed out to me on a previous thread) – the subvention is somewhere between £9-11bn per year – so, the equivalent of us paying a bank bailout every 4 or 5 years or so.

        1. SOQ

          And how is that subvention calculated? Is there any breakdown per health, education, housing etc? The interesting one would be the security or defence budget because while the British army have for the most part left, I expect that the other parts of that military based economy remain.

  3. Rob_G

    I do hope that Mary Lou has learned her lesson, and won’t go making any more pronouncements without running it by the boys on the Army Council first.

  4. Jake38

    I have zero interest in joining with religious bigots who have no interest in joining with me and who expect me to pay for their dole handouts. I suspect I’m not alone.

Comments are closed.

Sponsored Link
Broadsheet.ie