Little Movement

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From top:  Eddie Halpin, Station Master, Connolly Station, assisted by members of An Garda Síochána yesterday in enforcing social distancing guidelines; Dr Tony Holohan, Chief medical officer at the Department of Health at a press briefing last night

This morning.

Via RTÉ

Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan has said he is still not in a position to recommend easing restrictions due to Covid-19.

Dr Holohan said that the country is making great progress in slowing the growth rate of the disease but that with more than a 100 people in intensive care units and hundreds of others in hospital with Covid-19, he was not in a position to recommend easing restrictions.

Holohan not expecting to advise easing of restrictions (RTÉ)

Earlier: ‘It Has Very Much Relied On Its Relationship With Its Citizenry’

Rollingnews/Garda Press Office

Meanwhile…

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has been urged by ministers to lay out “an exit strategy” on Friday, when Covid-19 restrictions are to be extended by at least two weeks.

Divisions within Cabinet emerged yesterday as a “slight majority” of ministers called for some relaxation of curtailments to personal freedoms for over-70s, construction workers, and those who play golf and tennis.

The ministers, described as the ‘civil liberty wing of Cabinet’, raised concerns about the impact restrictions are having on the population and increased signs of public defiance.

Taoiseach urged to deliver ‘exit strategy’ as restrictions to be extended by two weeks (irish Examiner)

Meanwhile…

59 thoughts on “Little Movement

  1. ReproBertie

    Two more weeks brings us to May 19th. I wouldn’t be surprised if they extend that again to June 2nd but hopefully the testing has increased and the cases are low enough by May 19th and they can ease back a bit.

    1. Qwerty123

      The key metric is number of people in hospital being treated.

      People giving out about restrictions would have a word or 2 to say if the hospitals were full and people dying of covid on the streets.

      1. Hootenanny

        Don’t talk sense to these people, there is little point.
        Keep giving out about restrictions until one of their own elderly relatives dies, But hey, at least they got to go to a BBQ with Johno and the boys, right?

        1. Hootenanny

          I’m amazed that one of my posts has gotten through,.

          FYI for anyone who sees this, I have been continually censored here. Only for criticizing the editorial and subjective position being put forward by this publication. No such thing as objective reporting here. i implore everyone to seek their information from several sources and not the modified editorial position of broadsheet.ie

          1. Orla

            Encouraging critical thinking and a realistic viewpoint doesn’t appeal to the authoritarian personas who are loving the covid19 drama, said authoritarians always claim to be criticizing…….
            Nobody cared when it was only a “few hundred” dying the last few years on trolleys from bad flu seasons, it just wasn’t popular, now famous people are on board and economies in bits and it’s a great buzz for some delusional types.

            You recommend an indefinite lockdown until a vaccine is found for a virus which adapts to said vaccine within a year and continues.
            Do you feel defeated in life? Hate the big fella doing well, covid19 cutting them all down and your loving it.

            How are the Swedes doing compared to Ireland in the covid19 premier league table?

          2. millie in quarantine

            The reason people are kicking up a fuss about it is because it is a genuine threat on a par with the 1918 ‘Spanish’ flu. It has eff all to do with famous people.

            There is a flu vaccine, which is easily available in this country all year round and recommended for at risk categories (eg. elderly, asthmatics, those with compromised immune systems or respiratory conditions etc) from September through to April as a yearly precaution against the flu, which is very contagious and can kill. There is no definitive vaccine for coronavirus as yet, and as the numbers indicate, it is highly contagious and also has a high mortality rate. It is also very difficult to create some form of antibiotic or vaccine for a virus at all. There are many factors, most of which we won’t be able to analyse or understand fully until after this virus has worked it’s way through the global population or a viable cure is found.

    1. Orla

      Is safe and healthy still safe and healthy when you are broke?can’t pay the mortgage? Can’t afford food?
      Suppose the tents on the canal there are kind of safe and sure plenty of homeless shelters doing food these days for myself and the kids, be grand, it’s Ireland sure and look it the English are doing way worse and that’s all that matters, if I’m wearing fancy black plastic bag as a dress but the English can only afford the cheap centra style bags,great!

      Do you get that people are really struggling right now? Empathy when it comes to humans doesn’t last “indefinitely” particularly when governments are bailing banks and big corporate groups for trillions while the rest of us get token amounts for now, our token amount will be reduced but the banks and corporate groups amount will not be.

        1. Orla

          Yes almost impressive as your vague responses with vague terms and strawman’s in your previous comment also.

          A viable cure is what exactly for an adapting virus? The current testing methods are using amplification methods not viral load which clouds the picture even more when it comes to defining infection hence the false positives ,antibody testing is not ideal either ,Clare Byrne a popular example.
          The flu vaccine as I mentioned does not work in some cases,in others it does ,calling or implying it’s a cure is redundant particularly when we look at the similarity of all SARS viruses.

          How do we know it’s on par with spanish flu?This is my point about the now ever increasing “what if” arguments , The covid19 estimates are based on similar models that have been proven incorrect in the past because we have hindsight of not carrying out mass shut downs, Ferguson in the uk predicted 2 million would die from bird flu in 2005 for example.
          Keep in mind the spanish flu was during a period of poor hygiene standards and extreme poverty massively effecting the outcome.

          To be clear because you because are fond of and old strawman, I’m not a crackpot covid19 denier nor do I believe it’s a hoax, my issue is with the trade off economically ,the effect that has on lives and the using covid 19 for political gain, they couldn’t care less about the health care system in previous years.

          1. millie in quarantine

            Perhaps because I’m not pretending to be an immunologist or a scientist. I don’t claim any superior knowledge of this virus. So I’m not going around claiming to use ‘critical thinking’ as a means of divining further information from an illness we still don’t fully understand (and won’t understand until much later in the future), especially when there is so much conflicting information going around.

            I’m sure you can add your own further inferrance based on your biases, since you seem very fond of doing that based on your previous comments.

  2. GiggidyGoo

    ‘….some relaxation of curtailments to personal freedoms for over-70s, construction workers, and those who play golf and tennis.’
    What about those that like to fish? Golf and tennis specific.

    1. f_lawless

      In the interests of solidarity, the general public should be permitted free access to all private golf clubs and tennis clubs, I say!

          1. GiggidyGoo

            Don’t play it myself, but have experience of some in clubhouses after a competition, and the amount of bull that emanates during the prize-givings is laughable.

          2. millie in quarantine

            I have been know to enjoy a game of pitch and putt myself. Widely acknowledged to be absolutely dreadful at it.

  3. Dunno

    If I want to swim in the sea or paddle board while adhering to social distancing then I should not be arrested.
    I think we should be looking at the data coming from Sweden and Norway….Sweden practices social distancing and Norway in total lockdown….. if the results are more or less the same then I think we should take note.

    1. broadbag

      I want to do my thing, my thing is okay because…it’s my thing. Me me me me me!

      This is why the lockdown is taking so long because there’s so many selfish gobpoos in the country who can’t just stay in for their own and everyone elses safety.

    2. Rob_G

      The emergency services have enough to be dealing with at the minute without rescuing gobpoos drowning in the sea on their paddleboards.

      Sweden’s death rate per 100k of population is FOUR TIMES that of Norway.

        1. Joe cool

          Ah yes. That’s defeated now. we are sheep. That’ll end the argument totally. How will we come back from that

        2. Rob_G

          – suggests the lockdown is unnecessary, calls for comparison of data between Sweden and Norway

          – is provided with said data, does not support their argument

          – reverts to “Sheep!!”

          Baaaaa

          1. Dunno

            Sheep!!! keyboard warrior sheep. That is probably all ye are good at. Nothing more, Nothing less.

          2. Matt Pilates

            Sweden has over 2,000 people dead from the virus. Some Nordic model there. We weren’t Bjorn yesterday…

      1. Orla

        Why compare Sweden to Norway when Ireland’s and Sweden’s death is more or less the same when adjusted for populace.
        You could get a job writing for some toxic media mainstream or alternate rag with those selective out of context statistics with CAPITAL USE ALSO.

        The emergency services have manages just fine and it’s common knowledge at this point.

        The continual “what if” doomsday arguments are wearing thin, reality has these viruses and we have to live with them or die with them because we don’t have a cure, the vaccines for these viruses are not cures.
        At this point it’s we have fractal like conspiracies ,the 2nmain ones in Ireland are the Gemma like conspiracies or the normie trust the selective “experts” conspiracy who have now managed to create conspiracies theories about the conspiracy theorists.

        1. Tinytim

          Many people are eager to compare with Sweden but it doesn’t make a great comparison to (Republic of ) Ireland in many ways.

          ..contrast maybe.
          As Nations..
          Sweden has double population yet 1/3 of population density. Similarity now, but a month ago was significantly different human interaction based on weather.
          Significantly different format social interaction pubs/sports/work.

          Specifically the stats on this virus only match occasionally.
          Similar total cases but Ireland has complete almost 3xtests per million and has 2x cases per million.
          Sweden has double the deaths; similar per million.

          Please be cautious in quantitative comparisons; there are so many socio/economic/qualitative variables which may contribute.

          It raises more questions really.
          Life (and with it, death) is really interesting don’t you think?

  4. Type0Negative

    Golf? Sure if thats what you’re into.
    Tennis? You’re still handling the same bloody ball.

  5. V-19

    We were locked down to give them time to line up and roll out the testing regime to cope with the 15,000 swabs a day (Source RTÉ 19th March btw bots) And give the 6 ICU beds per 100k a chance (Sweden with circa 30 per 100k so no wonder they could do what they liked)

    1st case confirmed 29th February – Patient 1 made themselves known to HSE circa 24th Febraury
    emergency care package for Nursing Homes 4th April

    And here we are now
    Into another stretch of Lockdown – and they still haven’t got it together

    They forced us to bail out the Banks, their pals and the Insurance Industry
    And here we are now Bankrupting the Country, and many of its Citizens and Businesses’ again, to Bail out the HSE

    And RTÉ any day now btw

    GoFyourselves
    And yere dramatic vidoes of testing sites from Croke Park down to d’Pairc
    Window Dressing – like Anglo did
    Like Leo’s socks

    Ye couldn’t organise f’n rubber gloves ffs

    But none of this impacts the bucks putting us out of business; they’ve all that flexi built up and a pay top up already in the back pockets

      1. V

        That’s your job Rob
        Find what need to spin dry yerself

        Lads have had over two months to try and get it together
        And we’re still waiting on them – 2 metres apart of course
        We can’t be imposing more overtime on the poor overworked Gardai

        1. Rob_G

          I genuinely have no clue what it is you are harping on about; you are against the lockdown or the government’s response, or something…

  6. Frank

    the key metric is the number in ICU beds.
    holohan vaguely says there is over a hundred in ICU.
    a month ago the department stated there was 312 beds in ICU and they were working on doubling that in the coming weeks. did they? who knows??

    so the ICU capacity is at a third or perhaps better if they did up capacity by 100% as promised its time to release the population.

  7. Johnnythree

    Looking at the comments above it’s clear lots of people still believe Govt numbers. I don’t. I don’t believe they have a plan or know what to do next. Everyone in official circles rooting for Sweden to poop it up so they can say the Irish/ UK approach was right. The drop in cases started before the lockdown in Ireland. What is the point of the lockdown anyway? Who knows? Not the Govt but they didn’t need to all they knew was that the average Irish person would be compliant without question. Months after the first case we still have no strategy, the reasons for lockdown appear to be very much not thought through, we have economic havoc and we still have not seen the second wave, testing not up to speed, extra ICU beds not up to speed. Shambles.

    1. ReproBertie

      The reason for the lockdown has been obvious since day 1. If we allowed the virus to spread at the rate it was spreading then we would find ourselves without enough ICU beds to handle all the patients needing the ICU beds. Did you miss all the talk of flattening the curve? The lockdown reduces the spread and means our health service can cope with the cases it is getting. Easing the lockdown will mean more cases which is why it will be a gradual process. Ending it any other way will mean many more cases and a possible overwhelming of the ICU beds.

      1. Johnnythree

        Obvious? No, thats the reason you were told. I didn’t miss the curve flattening talk – I just investigated it more. The curve was already flattening before lockdown. Sure, lockdown has reduced risk and probably reduced infections. But its a blunt instrument when it comes to squaring up the economic damage done. The figures pre lockdown indicated that the curve was flattening. Enter lockdown and suddenly all spin is about the success of lockdown. Remember the lag? Between getting the disease and symptoms, go look at all the metrics and figure that into the lockdown period. Just because the curve flattened in the lockdown period does not prove it was the lockdown that triggered it. Based on your comments how do you explain Sweden vs Ireland? Think their approach was correct? Better economically ? and maybe better for morbidity in the long run? There was no ICU risk because the curve was easing before the pressure could begin on our crappy ICU system which was never invested in by our Govt until we had a crisis on our hands. Easing the lockdown will for sure mean more cases. But how much more will we tolerate? How many will be acceptable? No answers to these questions at the moment even though we really need them. But don’t get stuck on the ‘lockdown fixed the curve’ narrative because its not true. Social distancing alone will prove to be as useful a tool as locking down especially if you take economy imnto the equation.

        1. Commenter #1

          Well you go first. How many more cases of coronavirus would you tolerate as a consequence of easing the lockdown? After all, you’re the one arguing for easing them. As you say, lockdown has reduced risk and probably reduced infections.

          1. Johnnythree

            I’m not arguing for an easing of the lock down. My commentary was on the efficacy and narrative around the lockdown and the easy path to assumptions.

          2. Commenter #1

            “Social distancing alone will prove to be as useful a tool as locking down especially if you take economy imnto the equation.”

            So you think that social distancing is as effective as locking down, but are not arguing for easing of the lock down, even though the latter does economic damage that the former doesn’t.

  8. Zaccone

    Sweden has a lower per capita death rate than Ireland, yet has no mandatory lockdown. They’ve also never once maxed out their ICU or hospital capacity. And cases there are now declining. Its pretty definitive proof that we can move to their model and still be fine.

    This also leaving aside the fact that countries like Italy & Spain, which were much harder hit than Ireland, have also already begun to open up.

    Theres absolutely no justification for us not now beginning to gradually open up.

    1. Johnnythree

      Yeah but Sweden is a grown up country where people make informed choices and are ok with the consequences.

    2. ReproBertie

      Italy and Spain locked down earlier than we did and for longer. They are only now slowly opening up. We have been told what is necessary for us to gradually open up. That’s the justification for us not doing so yet.

    3. Cian

      Sweden has a lockdown, it just isn’t a mandatory lockdown.

      It’s more a compulsory lockdown.

    4. Orla

      It’s an argument of expert vague “what if’s” now for the continued justification.
      The testing is a disaster on top of it all, the amplification technique is less than ideal particularly when hysteria has set in with the public, viral load would be better no?

      We are seen as cold hearted to make the economic argument, when hundreds die of flu in previous years it wasn’t popular or in vogue to care about flu victims, when I point this out to some I am told “yeah but like it was only a few hundred died then”.

  9. Johnnythree

    @Commentator 1
    So you think that social distancing is as effective as locking down – I do yes, in the long run.

    But are not arguing for easing of the lock down, even though the latter does economic damage that the former doesn’t – I have no opinion on easing the lockdown, the damage is done in the main.

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