#NPHET and the Irish Gov are considering mandating face coverings for primary school children.
The Irish media are not asking the pertinent questions.
As an engineer with >10 years in the med device and Pharma industry here are some of the questions they should be asking 👇👇👇 pic.twitter.com/ai7zpcasZY
— Ciaran Heffernan (@Chef_Heff90) March 2, 2021
1. What studies have been completed showing the effectiveness of face coverings on young children against the spread of SARS-CoV-2?
2. What studies have been completed showing the long-term mental and physical health impacts on young children after prolonged face covering usage?
3. What medical assessments will be completed of each child to rule out any undiagnosed medical, heart or respiratory conditions prior to a face covering mandate?
4. What medical-grade face coverings would be supplied by the government that are regulated for use on young children (CE marked, certificate of sterility, material certification and equivalency of use when compared to cited studies on effectiveness and prolonged health impacts)?
5. What supplier controls would be in-place (validations, risk assessments, audits, testing and approvals) to ensure consistency in face covering performance and safety?
6. What training and instruction will be provided to teachers so that they can monitor face covering usage and ensure its inline with the recommended usage per the cited studies on effectiveness and prolonged health impacts?
7. What risk assessments have been completed to assess the specific risks associated with young children wearing face masks in school environments?
8. What are the risks identified and what control measures are in-place to reduce these risks to an acceptable level?
9. Who is liable for any damages as a result of a child wearing a face covering?
Unless satisfactory answers are provided for each of these questions Nphet and the government have no right to suggest face coverings for children.
All of the above should also be applied to secondary school children. As parents it is our duty to ensure their safety and protection.
Even if answers are provided every parent and child should have the right to say no based on medical, religious or other reasons….
Anyone?/FIGHT!
Nphet to consider wearing of masks for primary school children (Independent.ie)
Meanwhile…
Double facemasks could be coming to Britain as ‘doctor says coverings should be two or three layers thick’ https://t.co/NAf8PyptU4
— Daily Mail U.K. (@DailyMailUK) March 2, 2021
Damn you, Big Mask.
We’re at the stage in the pandemic when we should be planning on relaxing restrictions, as our most vulnerable get vaccinated.
Instead, the Irish govt are looking at bringing in further restrictions.
Have we entered a time warp?
Mr T you’re dead right.
Also where has the government even published any kind of timeline? E.g. at what point in time will all vulnerables, and elderly be vaccinated? Surely they have a worse case estimate of this date to share. Project planning 101
Personally, I’m dropping the mask from that point onward and building antibodies the old fashioned (quicker) way. Anyone who still feels at risk can isolate themselves until their vaccine turn. Once my parents are vaccinated, I’m done complying with restrictions.
Public messaging from Gov’t spokespersons should be : Vaccinations are the light at the ned of the tunnel. Once the danger groups are vaccinated, we will loosening restrictions on all outdoor events. Then follow that with the over 60’s, 50’s, 40’s, okay now we can have restaurants fully back. Then 30’s and 20’s, okay everything is open! Go and live!
The general public need some optimism and something to look forward to. Talk of more rules and more masks will only lead to more protests and underground parties/nightclubs spreader events. They need to cop on and think harder on their messaging.
+1
Is it fear of the new variants that’s causing them to remain cautious?
Also, I would imagine they expected the numbers to reduce more dramatically (like they did last Summer).
Yes good points.
I think the RNA vaccines are easily adjusted to be effective against the new variants. Don’t most of the EU approved vaccines kill the new variants? I thought I heard that reported on the news yesterday (tests from Israel and UK). Not sure about the Russian, or Chinese vaccines, but who is?
Last summer the whole EU and USA made terrible mistakes, should have restricted flights and travel. This summer should be very different becasue of the vaccines.
there’s a good wiki page summarising variants in a table..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2. Yeah none of the variants listed seem like they are anything to overly panic about (see antgenicity). I don’t think we should lockdown everytime there is new mutation / variant of concern. If we do, then we’re in lockdown for a long long time.
“Once my parents are vaccinated, I’m done complying with restrictions.”
What a selfish, thoughtless idiotic arse you are.
If my parents are already vaccinated, am I free to spew all over your parents now?
This kind of proud idiocy is why we will always have Covid, and why it is pointless commenting on the endless parades of ignorance and selfishness on this website these days.
Ok nobbert, what I meant was my parent’s generation. Not ‘only’ my own 2 parents, you clown. When the >60s >70s and all vulnerables are done (underlying conditions) then it’s party time unless you give me a good reason not to.
oh I get it now…
When you say ‘Once my parents are vaccinated’, you mean EVERYBODY’S PARENTS’!
… like as if you were Jesus..
Not more on masks! Jeeeeeeeeyaaaazzzzus!
Broadsheet is playing the hits!
We even had some Trump content this morning. Spoiled rotten!
Great, yet another crypto + YouTube bro whose uncanvassed opinion we are supposed to listen to over NPHET’s.
89 followers… where on earth does Bodger come across these narcissists?
Another classic case of a blind adherent disdaining anything contrary to what the nominal authority says simply because it doesn’t agree with the Sacred Text, rather than actually taking issue with any of the questions being posed. I’m not sure if I’d say you’re a good man Rob but you’re certainly dependable and if I ever stage a coup I’ll make sure to have you on board.
I look forward to infrastructure projects where the government rejects the opinion of civil engineers in favour of that of someone who has “coffee addict + Twitter user” on their profile.
They do that on a regular basis, they ignore informed advice and opinion of people they hired to give them informed advice and opinio
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/government-s-economic-plans-not-credible-watchdog-says-1.3921124
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-ignored-repeated-warnings-that-75m-housing-scheme-would-increase-prices-1.4451837?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fgovernment-ignored-repeated-warnings-that-75m-housing-scheme-would-increase-prices-1.4451837
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/pat-leahy-the-national-plan-should-annoy-people-1.3377911?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fpat-leahy-the-national-plan-should-annoy-people-1.3377911
This amounts to child abuse at this stage.
But the average John and Mary will go along with like they go along with everything else.
Would you go away with your “child abuse”! This is yet another reason nobody takes ratlickers seriously!
+ 1
Muppets gonna muppet
Ah now
It’s child nuisancing at most
I got my 8 YO nephew a baby yoda mask, bespoke made (but keep that quiet, we all know how Disney loves their lawyers).
He doesn’t need it but he WANTED it. So he got it.
And he loves it. Wears it all the time.
+1
The wee miss is inordinately fond of her dragon mask. It has Toothless from How to Train Your Dragon on it and comes only a close second to her Pikachu mask.
I can only speak for myself, but I find the thought of an 8 year old wanting, and loving, to keep their face covered with a mask all the time very disturbing. It’s not healthy At that age he’s just absorbing the example set for him by the adults and peers in his life. Haven’t you considered that his psychological development may be being negatively affected?
Ever heard of Halloween?
If your child had to taken to keeping their face covered with their Halloween mask – not just during Halloween day festivities – but on an ongoing basis in day-to-day situations, would it give you pause for thought at all that maybe there could be an underlying issue causing an unhealthy habit to form, or would you encourage it without giving it a second thought?
I think you may be projecting your own anxieties about masks onto this child to be honest. I’m not trying to downplay your concerns – I think you’re right; some children will experience some negative development from it, but most won’t and haven’t. Children are incredibly resilient and adaptable creatures, and if you give them the tools to understand the situation and to express their feelings on it, they usually will. Admittedly, not in the way you expect, but that’s kids for you.
For my own child, she’s happy enough to wear them, but only for so long. About 30 mins tends to be her limit, and she will tell me when she’s had enough. If you were to ask her opinion on facemasks, she would tell you they’re a pain in the bum. But she understands why we sometimes need to wear them even if she doesn’t always like it.
Ha ha!
I remember a few months back when I was giving out about restrictions and I was worried that they would make children wear masks and bring in vaccine passports to allow us to move around.
“Don’t be silly Micko many of you said.”
In fact, some of you were quite consoling in fairness to you. (Thanks for that btw)
“Don’t worry Micko – it’ll never happen..”
And what do we have being proposed now? Both those things, some people on here advocating for them.
Turkeys voting for Christmas.
And you guys wonder why I have never worn a mask?
It’s the thin edge of the wedge.
It’s not right to enforce mask wearing on anyone who doesn’t want to and it’s not right to make children wear them for 6 hours a day.
“And you guys wonder why I have never worn a mask?”
Why am I not surprised that you’d be one of the maskholes causing trouble in shops! Do you get off on upsetting shop assistants?
Nah.
I’m very nice and never get aggressive with anyone.
Besides that’s what they would be expecting. They are prepared to deal with aggressive people.
I just explain the situation and all is fine. Totally disarms em.
It’s grand. Think of me as a conscientious objector.
I believe it’s wrong.
Interesting that’s the part of my post that you have a problem with though Daisy.
Not the issue of children or vaccine passports.
Think you need to have a think why that is
You’re just a freeman on the land, putting people at risk for your own ratlickin’, selfish reasons.
You’re very aggressive Daisy.
Why?
It’s not like I ask anyone else to do it. I don’t promote it here or anything.
How about, you do you – and I’ll do me. Fair?
you absolutely do promote it, micko. every day here.
and as for “I do me, you do you” – does that apply to all laws? if theres something I think is a load of bullsh 1t and an infringement on my personal liberty, would you support me ignoring those laws?
Keep on ratlickin’ Micko, keep on ratlickin’.
…in fairness Daisy, you seem to have upset the real ratlickers today…poor Micko is trying hard but he’s still yellowpack…
I haven’t spoken about masks in months @BB.
And I think you should follow whatever laws you feel are just and proper.
And do not follow those you feel are unjust or wrong.
This might land you in trouble, but at the end of the day – you’ve only yourself to answer to really…
You do what you feel is right, and you’ll never go wrong Brother. ;)
sounds like sage advice, micko. thanks for understanding me.
so I’ve observed that 99/100, driving under the influence of alcohol is fine – nothing happens: there might be a fatality in 1 in 100 instances but they’re tiny odds, so hardly worth worrying about
and same for speeding and same for driving on the wrong side of the road
personally, I think its oppressive state control to introduce laws about things that in 99% of cases are fine to do
so you’d be cool with me driving pissed at 130km/h on the wrong side of the road past your house tomorrow morning- maybe just as your kids are heading out
chances are, nothing bad will happen
you’re ok with me disregarding those rules given that I believe them to be unnecessary
Totally with Daisy on this one.
Masks are hardly a big ask. I wear mine to make other folks feel at ease not to protect me. Didn’t like it initially- don’t mind it now. I have travelled widely in Japan so I guess I got the rationale. It’s only temporary.
Usually I pass two very old dears on my daily walk / run (could be a mother/daughter or sisters but lovely tiny little ladies). I always make sure to give them plenty of space to pass and even step onto the road if safe. It makes them feel safer and they usually wave now. About them – not me.
But I guess some selfish twats think otherwise.
…insider trading/front running expert now pivots seamlessly to insulting/ abusing another poster on,wait for it children and masks with bizarre nonsensical allusion to drunk driving.
Totally with Daisy on this one.
Masks are hardly a big ask. I wear mine to make other folks feel at ease not to protect me. Didn’t like it initially- don’t mind it now. I have travelled widely in Japan so I guess I got the rationale. It’s only temporary.
Usually I pass two very old dears on my daily walk / run (could be a mother/daughter or sisters but lovely tiny little ladies). I always make sure to give them plenty of space to pass and even step onto the road if safe. It makes them feel safer and they usually wave now. Again, about them – not me.
But I guess some selfish gits think otherwise.
I think you didn’t read what I said BB
If you can live with yourself and do your “drunk driving hypothetical thing” – then that’s on you.
I think you should probably examine why me following my belief bothers you so much though.
You really really should.
yeah I’m absolutely fine with it
as I said, I think those laws are unnecessary
so, again, you’re fine with me lashing past your house, maybe 6 or 7 times over the limit and on the wrong side of the road tomorrow morning, yeah?
Knockout!
“ It’s only temporary.” says Boxy
Is it now…?
What about vaccine passports? Are they temporary too?
Well, in South America, I had to carry my yellow fever vaccine certificate as it was requested in a few places.
No issue with a digital vaccination passport if it gets me back travelling and into other countries. Do you really think, for example, given the carnage in Italy, countries like these will be taking chances?
I don’t see any crazy conspiracies here.
No conspiracies Boxy
I’m fine with using a vaccine passport to travel to other countries- it’s their countries they can bring in whatever suits them.
I have an issue with using one to go to events / gatherings and similar in Ireland.
China and Israel have brought this in already.
Funny, but I believe Sweden are also looking at a vaccination passport for travel and live events etc.
Again, no issue if time limited and a simple transparent system. Internal vaccine passports not mooted here yet AFAIK. I doubt we’ll be leading the way here (we don’t even have a national ID card). I just want a vaccine!
Wear your mask even if you don’t think it makes a difference. Make little old ladies and supermarket staff feel better. They deserve it and aren’t interested in conscientious objections. I mean it is not the same as going to war.
Again @BB
I see no reason that you feel the need to go on about this or why you feel the need to engage in wildly speculative hypotheticals. I don’t.
For example; You’re a big fan of communism right?
I don’t think that a good idea, but I don’t feel the need to attack you about it coz I’m pretty sure I’m right about it. I might wind you up, you you can follow your own thing.
There’s three of you having a go here at me – are you sure your all certain that your assertions are correct?
How sure are your beliefs if you feel the need to correct me?
“…the lady doth protest too much methinks”
humour me, micko
would you be ok with me driving past your house in the way described ?
@Boxy
Little old ladies are grown adults that are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. I don’t see the need to infantilise old people.
I have an uncle in his 70’s who feels similar. He’d be back in his local pub tomorrow if they opened. He’s sick of being treated like a child.
He “only has a good few years left” and wants to determine his own life.
Anyway, we’re going around in circles. We’re not going to convince each other – but I do respect your opinions.
“ would you be ok with me driving past your house in the way described ?”
I would not be ok with it BB
But I’d do something about it.
I’d call the Guards or go out a somehow try to stop you myself.
Maybe you should do the same next time you see someone in a shop without a mask. ;)
grand, I’d be the same
so it’s not quite “you do you, I’ll do me” then, is it
because we live in a society of mutuality and interdependence, and what you do affects me and vice versa
so wear a mask
it’s not a big deal
“ it’s not a big deal”
But that’s the thing.
It is a big deal to me, for my own reasons. That’s the only thing we disagree on.
You have to admit, masks are a big change to society, one that worries and upsets people.
Can you not see why people could be nervous about the path this sets? Even if you don’t agree.
Anyway, things for us both to think about sure.
Agree to disagree then? :)
not being allowed have a few pints and drive home is a massive thing for lots of people
it’s taken the only route to social interaction away from tens of thousands of people around the country – causing isolation, unhappiness, and lots more
that rule is a far greater restriction on someone’s personal liberty than asking you to cover your nose and mouth for the 4 minutes you’re in Spar
“ asking you to cover your nose and mouth for the 4 minutes you’re in Spar”
It’s the knock on effect.
That’s what this entire post is about up top – masks on kids.
Thin end of the wedge.
You see Micko, it is normal to question, to express apprehension, to want to understand, to get the full picture BUT a lot of those crusading against these Covid measures have bigger issues.
Ireland has its problems, of that there is no doubt but it is a country with an enviable social cohesion and a high degree of mutuality, trust and confidence among the citizenry and between the citizens and the institutions of state. Most people do not innately distrust or fear the government or apparatus of the state and this is borne out by the willingness of a large majority to obey government public health advice and rules.
But a lot of those who are utterly opposed to masks and every Covid measure are completely following another narrative which does not resemble the reality of the country in which I reside. Some have been dragged further down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and grievance-mongering. I am not saying you are doing this but you have to admit that some of those leading the clarion call to oppose these measures have a much wider and dangerous agenda.
I suspect you might even get a +1 from Mick McCabe for that comment, boxy
@BB
Lol! You mean GiggidyPox obviously! I can never tell the difference. Heehee.
Circles lads…
Micko don’t take this the wrong way please but you do yourself no favours here by trying to debate with the likes of Bb and Daisy , you are better than that Micko and don’t be like them.
well that’s just rude
Rule #1 of Being On The Internet.
Do not feed the trolls.
But they’re so hungry.
Here in Singapore, masks have been mandetory since day dot for all kids in schools, including my 2yo and 4yo (outside of school, but in public places it’s mandetory for 6yo and above to wear masks). An holistic and hard-line approach to protecting against Covid spread has successfully kept the virus at bay here for a long time now. The govt has stated that there are no plans to drop mask-wearing even after the population has been vaccinated since the threat of the virus will not have gone away until other countries are also largely vaccinated.
Authoritarian govt means there is a total lack of debate and zero non-compliance with regard to mask-wearing. I hate wearing masks and I particularly hate that my kids are forced to, but honestly I am glad to miss out on the unending and tiring debates and protests on the matter.
In terms of the points in Ciaran Heffernan’s tweet in the original post, well… we’re still alive down here, be it despite, or because of, the damn things.
“As an engineer with >10 years in the med device and Pharma industry”
Not a doctor.