Tag Archives: Fatal Fetal Abnormalities


Children’s Minister Katherine Zappone at a homeless event this morning


The Bill does not legislate for termination in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities. The Government has argued that it is only obliged to deal with the issues that relate to the European Convention, the implementing of the A, B and C judgment and the X case and that it is not obligated to go any further.

Obligated by whom or what? Why is this an issue for another day? It may be for another day in light of political strategy and tactics. I do not agree that it is for another day in light of ethical considerations and international human rights obligations.

Then Senator Katherine Zappone, during the seanad debate on the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill, 2013.


Children’s Minister Katherine Zappone says she wishes her fellow Independent Ministers hadn’t insisted on a free vote on abortion.
Mick Wallace’s bill has caused a rift in Cabinet, with Independent Ministers including Shane Ross and Finian McGrath, due to vote against the rest of the government later when they support the “fatal foetal abnormalities” bill.
Minister Zappone, regrets that her fellow Independent Cabinet Ministers have refused to side with the Government on abortion.

Zappone Wishes Fellow Independents Hadn’t Insisted On A Free Vote (Clare Fm)

There you go.

Previously: Unconstitutional Deference



This afternoon.

Leinster House, Kildare Street, Dublin 2

The Pro life Campaign protesting Mick Wallace’s fatal foetal abnormalities private members bill on abortion.

They claim those supporting the bill are doing a “real disservice to families of babies with life limiting condition, particularly those who have been pressured to abort their child”.

Top from left: Aifric Ni Fhloinn, Pro Life Campaign spokesperson Cora Sherlock, Emma Sisk and Lorraine Mc Mahon.

Earlier: Unconstitutional Deference



00156066Attorney General Marie Whelan

YOU decide.

The Eight Amendment, which protects the life of the unborn, has been invoked by Enda Kenny to explain why his party could not support Clare Daly’s legislation to permit abortion in the case of fatal foetal abnormalities.

The advice given has not been formally published extracts were leaked in last Sunday’s Sunday Business Post.

The paper reported:

“The advice states that where babies are capable of being born alive, “it is quite clear that Article 40.3.3 is engaged”….The Attorney General’s view is unequivocal, and leaves no room for doubt that the legislation proposed by independent TD Clare Daly last week to allow abortion in cases of fatal foetal abnormality is in conflict with the Constitution. The advice notes that there is no consensus as to what is meant by the term “fatal foetal abnormality”. However, it says, in many cases there is a possibility that such foetuses would be born alive. This is the case with conditions such as Edwards Syndrome and anencephaly. Even though babies with these conditions will eventually die after a period which in some cases may be very short, the Attorney General advised that the constitutional protections of Article 40.3.3 apply.”


On foot of this, Unemployed Lawyer writes:

When you look at the terms of the Bill (Protection of Life in Pregnancy (Fatal Foetal Abnormalities) Bill 2013) put forward by Ms Daly, this Bill (Section 1) actually defines ‘fatal foetal abnormality’ in such a way as to remove the concerns voiced by the Attorney General, so as to confine it to an abnormality ‘incompatible with life outside the womb’.

A foetus suffering from an abnormality ‘incompatible with life outside the womb’ cannot by definition be born alive. As such, irrespective of how ‘fatal foetal abnormality’ is defined in ordinary life, the way in which it is defined in the Bill appears to deal with the concerns expressed by the A-G.

Was the Attorney General  made aware, when providing this advice, of the definition of ‘fatal foetal abnormality’ in Section 1 of Ms Daly’s Bill, as this does not appear clear from the extracts from the advice apparently provided by her – even though this advice was described as having been provided ‘last week’?

And also – was her sole objection to fatal foetal abnormality legislation – as appears from the SBP article (extract above), which of course may not reflect accurately the Opinion as a whole – based on the possibility that it might apply to some foetuses capable of surviving outside the womb. Perhaps your esteemed caffeinated legal friend might advise…

Previously: Was It Really Unconstitutional?

(Laura Hutton/Photocall Ireland)

Abortion clinic


‘Rebecca’ became pregnant in September of last year.

When she had her 20 week scan In January, she discovered her son, Christopher Denis, had complications that were incompatible with life.

She spoke with Jonathan Healy of Lunchtime on Newstalk.

Rebecca: “We were given the options and told that basically the baby wouldn’t survive outside the womb and if he did – we didn’t even know it was a boy at the time – he could live for three seconds he could just take one breath and not come back from that breath or live for 3 minutes…. We could terminate or continue with the pregnancy… So the next day myself and my husband made the decision to terminate because the baby had no chance… Because I was so far gone you know, my time was running out basically to go to England … so from that day then I only had ten days left to make this, from that day to actually book in to go to Liverpool it took us 10 days.”

Jonathan Healy: “This was January 2014… so you would have been aware of all the discussion that had gone on about fatal foetal abnormality and the decision in the X case and the court case and all that and you would have listened to that not knowing you were going to find yourself in that position?”

Rebecca: “Of course… There are probably girls going into the hospital this morning and being told this and you never thought anything of it you thought you had a healthy pregnancy you had a healthy first pregnancy you thought this I thought this was the same and you know it wasn’t, totally different altogether.”

Healy: “And the decision to go for the termination? How difficult was that for you and your husband?”

Rebecca: “It’s so difficult. Myself and my husband were awake all night and you know itt’s just so difficult, you’d never think you’d be faced by this ever. And it’s not something you take lightly, you know, I’m totally against abortion… but termination for medical reasons is totally different but the other thing I’m totally against that even though we’ve been through this ourselves but that decision is one of the hardest decisions that any mother has to make. The hardest thing for me is making that decision knowing that my little baby was still kicking inside and you know, no mother should have to do that.”

Healy: “How else did the medical system deal with you here, because you were left with no choice…?

Rebecca: “I suppose the nurse’s hands are tied, they can’t do anything for you they can only advise you on what to do and that’s basically down to the law because it’s illegal, They can steer you in the direction of who to contact but that’s it they can’t do anything else for you. So basically you come out of the hospital after being given this information, that doctor in England doesn’t just take this on lightly they have to get your medical records and if they think your baby is going to survive they don’t do the procedure.”

Healy: “Yourself and your husband headed off to Liverpool. And when you got there you were going over on a flight presumably with people who were going away for the weekend?

Rebecca: “Crazy. There’s girls going on hen weekends and they’re all having their fun and rightly so and you’re sitting there and there are awful things going through your mind, you get off that plane then and you’re rushing to the hospital even the taximan trying to make small talk with you… they kind of know what you’re going for but it’s the most horrific journey I’ve ever had to take in my life. We were in Liverpool for football matches but this has totally changed for us I don’t think we could go to Liverpool again and not think why we were there the last time.”

Healy: “When did you find out the baby was a boy?”

Rebecca: “We actually found out when the doctor in Liverpool done the scan. Even when we got to Liverpool then and she was doing the scan she actually found there were more things wrong with Christopher Denis than actually thought. So he would have no chance…no chance at all.”

Healy: “So you have the termination and what happens then to an Irish woman in the Liverpool hospital who’s had that termination because, you know there are relatively swift procedures. How long did you stay in the hospital?”

Rebecca: “I was in the hospital, we got there on the 21st I think it was a Monday a Tuesday I think it was and it was 9.30 in the morning so basically I didn’t have Christopher Denis then I had him into the Wed morning on the 22nd. It’s not a procedure that is done straight away, you still have to have the baby, go through the labour process and the whole thing. I think people think you’re just brought in and it’s done straight away, it’s not.”

Healy: “So you actually delivered Christopher Denis?”|

Rebecca: “I actually delivered Christopher Denis, yes.”

Healy: “And you couldn’t do that in this country.”

Rebecca: “Couldn’t do that in this country no. So my baby was born in Britain. I had to go to another country for my, I must say, much-wanted baby. We planned our baby and everything and it didn’t happen for us that way so we had to go to England to have our baby.”

Healy: “Did you get to see him did you get to hold him.”

Rebecca: “Yes we got to hold him yes. We had Christopher Denis for 19 and half hours. So I had him at 2.15 into the Wednesday morning so we had to head back home that day.”

Healy: “So could you bring Christopher Denis with you?”

Rebecca: “No We had to leave our baby there as well.”

Healy: “And why was that Rebecca?”

Rebecca: “Because basically we wanted to have a post-mortem and I suppose whether to see for us to start a family again because us not knowing what was wrong with Christopher Dennis we needed the post-mortem. We had him on 22nd January we didn’t get our baby back until the 5th March.”

Healy: “So you would have gone home on the flight with the hen nights… and how did Christopher Denis come home.”

Rebecca: “Christopher Denis came home unfortunately in a little box delivered by TNT. You know when you have your baby all the balloons in the house…there was none of that. This is I don’t know the worst pain you can ever feel in your life. Myself and my husband never got to see the baby. The grandparents never got to see the baby. We have lovely photographs and everything of our baby but that’s all we have. Now I still have my baby at home, he comes to bed with his mammy and daddy every night but that’s how he came home. People don’t realise that how your baby is coming home. Your baby is coming home in a box.”

Dublin woman had “son’s remains delivered by TNT” after fatal foetal abnormality procedure (Newstalk)

Thanks Nadine Moloney

PIc: Guardian