Scott De Buitléir writes:
Chadwicks Building Providers have come up with this infographic (above) on the Irish relationship with water, including some pretty interesting stats, including:
• Over 80% of us are wrong when guessing how much water we use;
• The typical Irish person’s water footprint is over 3600 litres per day;
• It currently costs the state approximately €1.2 billion per annum to run the public water system.
FIGHT!
Senator Lorraine Higgins at Labour’s 2013 think-in
This morning.
Fear-rattling Labour Senator Lorraine Higgins spoke to Gavin Jennings on RTÉ R1’s Morning Ireland about tonight’s midnight deadline for people to register with Irish Water.
Deadline?
Schmeadline.
Lorraine Higgins: “Everybody will receive a bill, notwithstanding whether they’ register or not, in April. And I do believe…”
Gavin Jennings: “Sorry, I’m confused. What allowances will you not get if you don’t register by today.”
Higgins: “Well there are certain allowances for children that have to be taken into account and if you don’t register by today, by midnight tonight…”
Jennings: “What allowances?”
Higgins: “Well there are certain allowances Gavin, right across the board, for children, in terms of capacity, the number of litres that you get on an annual basis and I would urge your listeners…”
Jennings: “I thought you were being billed irrespective of how much you use, isn’t that right? I thought it was dependent how many people were in the house.”
Higgins: “That’s correct.”
Jennings: “We’ve constantly been told that it’s a simple matter of, you can reiterate if you want, of how much you pay for one person, how much you pay for more than one person. So, what don’t you get if you don’t register by today?”
Higgins: “That’s correct. It’s costing €3 per week and it’s very important to ensure the quality of our water in the future and I know from dealing with people in clinics, Gavin, that you know they don’t have the same degree of difficulty as they had prior to this new range of measures that was brought in by the Government..”
Jennings: “Sorry, just to be clear, sorry, today’s deadline, again. If people don’t register, and plenty haven’t, what don’t they get if don’t register by today?”
Higgins: “Well, you know the department of the environment has come out very clearly and said that there may be a situation where there’d be added cost on to the price of paying for water for this year.”
Jennings: “What added cost?”
Higgins: “That hasn’t been clarified yet and I await to find out what that will be. There will probably be a lot of discussion over the course of the coming week in relation to it.”
Jennings: “So, just to be clear, if you don’t register by today, what happens?”
Higgins: “If you don’t register by today, there will be, there will be a situation where you’ll be given optimal time to actually register, right up…”
Jennings: “So you’ll be given more time, yes?”
Higgins: “It seems to but to be clear, the minister has always stated from the outset and indeed even last week, that the second of February [today] was not a dropdead deadline.”
Jennings: “So, if I’m not sure if I want to register to pay for Irish Water, you’re going to give me more, I’m going to be given more time, I don’t have to do it today, is that right?”
Higgins: “Well it’s very important for people to register today…”
Jennings: “But I don’t have to do it today. I’m not really going to face any problems if I don’t do it today, is that right?”
Higgins: “Well the situation is, and as I said, a release from the department with regard to possible penalties and that needs to be borne in mind.”
Jennings: “What possible penalties?”
Higgins: “There’s no clarity on that, right at this moment, Gavin.”
Jennings: “OK.”
Higgins: “But I wouldn’t be advocating that people break the law like Mary Lou (McDonald, Sinn Féin TD who earlier declared her intention to not pay) seems to be doing. I think it’s interesting, her position, given…:
Jennings: “She’s talking about not paying, we were talking there about not registering. If I don’t pay and I know this is a hypothetical matter because the bills won’t arrive until April. If I don’t pay, what will happen to me?”
Higgins: “Well there’s a situation where there’ll be an exchange of information from the Revenue. We expect that there’ll be legislation brought in over the course of this month where it’ll be possible to put a charge on property. It’ll also be possible for landlords to bill their tenants and take it out of their deposits.”
Jennings: “Not yet though, no?”
Higgins: “Well this is something that’s going to be looked out over the course of this month and we hope to have legislation in place before the end of February.”
Jennings: “So, at the moment, if I decide I’m not going to pay, you don’t know what’s going to happen to me yet, is that right?”
Higgins: “Well that’s the position right now but as soon as the legislation is prepared and brought before the Houses of the Oireachtas, it will be expected that there will be a charge put on people’s properties and landlords will be permitted to take the cost of water out of a tenant’s deposit.”
Jennings: “How much of a charge do you think should be put on people’s property if they don’t pay?”
Higgins: “I can’t say that, Gavin and I’m not going to speculate on that.”
Jennings: “But you’re one of the…you’re a member of a party who’ll be legislating for it, what’s your opinion?”
Higgins: “Well I haven’t given it significant thought but I would urge people that’s important not to break the law, I wouldn’t be throwing it around, the populist line that Sinn Féin currently are, you can see how Mary Lou stuttered and stammered over the issue about how she was going to pay for water and how the Government would pay for water in terms of taxation.”
Jennings: “You can’t tell me what would happen if I don’t pay for water.”
Higgins: “Well these are decisions that’ll be made by the Government, Gavin.”
Jennings: “But they haven’t been made yet. There’s a deadline in place for today to register. The bills are going to arrive in April and we still don’t know what’s going to happen if people don’t pay.”
Higgins: “Well I’ve made it very, very clear that there will be a charge put on property and landlords will be permitted to take the price of Irish Water out of deposits.”
Jennings: “Senator Higgins, a large number of people haven’t registered today, thousands of people have protested on the streets and are continuing to do so, there’s no grant in place yet, the amount of income that Irish Water is going to get as a result of people paying bills has already been lowered. There’s no guarantee of passing the Eurostat test, no clarity on what landlords are expected to do, if their tenants don’t pay. What part of this plan has been a success so far?”
Higgins: “First and foremost, I don’t share your view Gavin when it comes to the numbers that have registered. There’s almost 1.1million that have responded – that’s 60% of where it needs to be. And there’s quite a large number…”
Jennings: “There’s a million people who haven’t.”
Higgins: “But look I mean, as I said, the second of February, isn’t a dropdead deadline, you know..”
Jennings: “The first deadline was last year, a million people still haven’t registered.”
Higgins: “Mistakes were made last year, there’s no question of that, we’ve held our hands up to that but all you’ve to do is look at the protests over the weekend, you know, the numbers were significantly down.”
Jennings: “What part of the policy, so far, has been a success?”
Higgins: “Look we’ve had difficulties, any time you’re trying to set up a new utility, it’s going to present some degree of difficulty. And I think you will acknowledge that.”
Jennings: “But has there been any success yet?”
Higgins: “Of course there’s been success. You can see the silent majority that have paid, or have registered rather, to pay the water charge, at 1.1million as it stands.”
Listen back in full here
Previously: Taking The PPS
Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland
Yesterday’s Sunday Independent, above; Group Business Editor at INM, Thomas Molloy, top; and Mark Malone, middle
Mark Malone, of Sound Migration, joined the panel of RTÉ Radio One’s Marian Finucane via telephone yesterday morning.
Among the panellists were Irish Times columnist and former Fianna Fáil adviser, Noel Whelan, and Thomas Molloy, Group Business Editor at Independent News and Media.
Mr Malone was invited to talk on the show because he attended Saturday’s protest in Dublin.
As Ms Finucane interviewed Mr Malone, the discussion turned towards Independent News and Media, Denis O’Brien and how GMC Sierra – a subsidiary of Mr O’Brien’s company, Siteserv – won a contract to install water meters.
Marian Finucane: “Mark you were on the march yesterday.”
Mark Malone: “I was indeed, yeah.”
Finucane: “And you were coming from Stoneybatter?”
Malone: “Yes I was coming from Stoneybatter. But if I could just first address some of the comments there…”
Finucane: “Sure.”
Malone: “I think the level of debate there is pretty poor in that you get the sense that ‘these are the times of the poor politicians who go in to the job with a great heart and, unfortunately, some hard decisions are made and, you know, there’s not a lot of respect there’. You talk about the idea of playing the person, rather than the ball. I mean public policy plays the person all the time. If you’re [inaudible], if you’re at the back end of disability cuts, if you’re at the back end of being put back on JobBridge, if you’re experiencing that, that’s you being played.”
Finucane: “Can I go back, I’ll come to that with you. But can I go back first of all to yesterday. What was it like? What was the atmosphere? How many were there? What was the spirit of the thing?”
Malone: “It was a really good atmosphere, I mean, as you probably know, it wasn’t really organised by any political organisation. This is a community response, a grass-roots level response and organised, mostly, through local campaign groups. So, as I say, I was involved with the Phibsboro group, we have folks there from Stoneybatter, from Broadstone, we kind of marched down, there was a couple thousand of us and we met up with folks coming from Heuston, who came from, landed at Heuston, I guess from all over the country. So that’s it. The tone was very relaxed. You know, most of us didn’t really have an idea where we were going, we were kind of walking around town, celebrating the fact that we were out. We were cognisant that over half the people haven’t signed, so it’s very clear that we’re winning this. As much as it likes to get spun, when you see that Denis O’Brien’s media, funnily enough, comes out and condemns an attack on democracy while Denis’ company is putting in the water meters, I mean you don’t need to be very smart to see what’s going on there in some sense.”
Finucane: “Are you implying that the editorial is based on a business decision by Denis O’Brien that was presumably commissioned by Irish Water?”
Malone: “No, I would have a much more nuanced understanding of the role and nature of how the mainstream media plays in shaping public discourse.”
Finucane: “No, I just thought that was the implication.”
Malone: “No, I’ve made clear I do think the mainstream media frames a lot of public conversations [inaudible]..the framing is around this sort of, the fear that, you know, conversations around the usefulness or not, or the problems around peaceful protest.”
Finucane: “Mark, can I just say to you – the very first sentence I uttered after doing the headlines was, I read the Sunday Indo headline and I said to a contributor who’s been writing about this week [Noel Whelan], ‘do you think that’s a bit OTT?’ and his first answer was, ‘yes’. He did think it was a bit OTT. So like, steady on, when you talk about framing, you know, what do you mean by framing, given they were the first two sentences in the programme?”
Malone: “Well another way to phrase it is this is a media conglomerate that’s owned by, you know, mostly owned by an individual who has the contract for putting in water meters.”
Finucane: “So that is the implication?”
Malone: “That’s not an implication, that’s fact.”
Finucane: “And you think that dictates the headline in the Sunday Independent?”
Malone: “No, I said it dictates notions of framing of how things are talked about in the public domain by mainstream media corporations.
Finucane: “Would you go along with that, Noel?”
Noel Whelan: “No but I think that the framing is going on, on all sides here. I don’t know why those involved in the protests feel the need to disagree with those of us who condemn the excesses of some of the protests.”
Finucane [to Thomas Molloy]: “Can I come to you because you are the Independent group. If there’s a plot and a plan and a subtext here, please reveal all.”
Thomas Molloy: “Well if there’s a plot, I need to be told about it but there’s isn’t a plot. This is the kind of nonsense that these people bring out, it’s just absolute drivel.”
Malone: “These people? Sorry, can I come in there?”
Molloy: “No, you know, you know, it’s just wrong to say that there is…it’s wrong…it’s wrong…”
Finucane: “He’s [Malone] is not ‘these people’. His name is Mark Malone and we invited him on the programme.”
Molloy: “It’s wrong to say that there’s a person who has a controlling stake in INM, there isn’t. It’s just a fact that there isn’t anybody who has a controlling stake. Just at that very basic level…”
Finucane: “Ah now, come here to me…”
Molloy: “Let’s stick to the facts.”
Finucane: “He [Denis O’Brien] has a shareholding in Independent News and Media that’s what? 29%, I think it is? Yeah. So I mean, do you know what I mean?”
Molloy: “No it’s the same shareholding that Ryanair has in Aer Lingus.”
Finuance: “Yes.”
Molloy: “Nobody goes around saying Ryanair has a controlling stake in Aer Lingus. If they did, that would be a problem but clearly they don’t, we’ve seen that this week. You know, people can be big shareholders without being, without controlling a company.”
Malone: “Can I just say, like, we’re talking about media, I’m talking about media that’s pretty much first year courses in universities discussing how, you know, media shapes public conversation. And this is why I’m talking about the level of debate. Now you’ve got an editor in chief there trying to come back and refuting what is pretty much 101 sociological, like theory that’s accepted by most lecturers in media studies.”
Molloy: “No, I’m not talking about first year university course here, I’m talking about reality, I’m talking about the Irish media landscape, as we all live and work in it. And, you know, whether or not you agree with ‘Attack on democracy’ as being over the top, the reality is that there are protesters outside Paschal Donohoe’s house. He has a family, he has to put up with that. What happened to Joan Burton, again, whatever you think about it, was really quite extraordinary and we are, we are coarsening the debate in this country, we’ve got to the stage where politicians will not be able to mix with other people in the streets and will not be able to pick up on what’s already happening and that’s a great shame because one of the conceding graces of Irish democracy has been that our politicians live among us.”
Finucane: “Well let me go back to Mark, let me go back to you because you said that it [Saturday’s protest] was good humoured and you say that the whole point of the representation on the streets yesterday was of those who haven’t signed up, as opposed to those who have.”
Malone: “Absolutely and I mean we talk about, I mean I could send you links all day long about videos on YouTube around men in masks coming into my community to put in water meters, coming in to intimidate us on a daily basis.”
Finucane: “Men in masks?”
Maloney: “Men in masks. I mean this is obviously, you can go to the Journal.ie, they’ve covered it, RTÉ haven’t really covered it that much. You have private security firms, like Guardex, who are there gathering intelligence, coming up, you know, coming up to people like me, to other individuals, naming us by name, telling us they know where we live, as whilst we’re taking part in a sort community protest of civil disobedience. Obviously, you know, we’re trying to stop the water meters coming in but there’s a level of actual intimidation, that stuff is on YouTube for sure, as well.”
Finucane: “Yeah well, you see, the interesting thing, Mark, is for somebody that gets information from people like you and from the media, as you call it, etc, etc, we hear both sides complaining about intimidation.”
Malone: “Absolutely, yeah, well I think there’s a differing level of conversation, I mean whatever about shouting names at politicians, I think that’s relatively fruitless, probably not that useful, that’s very different to private companies coming into my street and into my community and intimidating us, as part of a process of pushing through State policy. That’s, that has serious implications…
Molloy: “It’s not your street.”
Finucane: “Yes but it..”
Malone: “But to come back to yesterday’s march. Yesterday’s march was a celebration. Let’s not lose sight of the facts: we’re winning this, we’re winning this hands down. The State probably needs about 90% for this project to go through, it’s no way near that as the deadline approaches.”
Finucane: “Right.”
Malone: “So I’m very proud and inspired to be part of the movement, it’s the largest civil disobedience movement in generations.”
Listen back in full here
Previously: Dumb Intelligence Gathering
Anti-Irish Water protesters arriving at Heuston Station and in the city centre this afternoon for the first mass austerity demonstration of 2015.
From top: Maria Lynch and Catherine Lawlor; Rita Lawlor.
More to follow.
Thousands Protest Nationwide Over Water Charges (RTE News)
(Sam Boal and Leon Farrell/Photocall Ireland)
UPDATE:
Via Steve Stone
Today’s Irish Daily Mail (unavailable online)
There you go now.
Thanks Bewildered Student
“No Irish Water Tax!” has been scrawled in white on top of a new tower on 37th Avenue in Flushing, Queens [New York] — apparently a message against the new tax for water consumption in Ireland.
The tax is assessed for everything from drinking water to using the toilet, but its connection to the Flushing building, or when the message was painted, is unclear.
Calls to the building’s owner were not immediately returned. The building was issued a partial stop work order on Jan. 12 for expired permits, according to the Department of Buildings.
A construction worker outside the building said he wasn’t aware of the graffiti.
“What is a water tax?” the worker, who declined to give his name, asked.
Mysterious ‘No Irish Water Tax’ Graffiti Pops Up on Flushing Building (DNA)
Thanks Annajoy
Irish Water protestor Derek Byrne
Derek Byrne.
He’s sorry he called the President a ‘midget parasite’.
He freely admits he himself is nothing to write home about in the height ‘department’.
But, in a sweary bid for mitigation, Derek sez:
“The media jumping all over a non story from last Friday while they keep the real stories of those forced to suffer under the Austerity regime off the headlines.
This morning as I finish work I should be going home to bed for some much needed sleep. But no I have to go and apply for legal aid. Comical I must go and ask the state to pay someone to represent me so they can jail me.What is my crime?
Am I a drug dealer , a murderer, a burglar? No
Am I a threat to society? Hmm Yes & No
Am I a threat to the everyday citizen of Ireland ? No
Am I a threat to those who profit from other people’s misery? YESI made a conscious decisions about two years ago to stand up and fight back for my future in this country. You see after the so called collapse of this country things changed. Although I was one of the lucky ones that kept their job I may as well have been unemployed.
As my P60s show it’s a big drop when you are earning €47,000 in 2008 and are then earning €28,000 in 2011. That’s a big drop. I remember a time I could afford to socialise with friends or go where ever I wanted with my kids. These days you are lucky if you can afford to rent a movie out.
So I was compelled to stand up and do something. Along the way I realised that it was to late for me. So I said I would fight on to ensure my children didn’t have to suffer. You see I sit and I watch the greedy parasites that enforced this shite on our backs.
These people preached about patriotic duty and solidarity with our fellow country men.
Yet all this time these greedy selfish bastards continued to draw down massive salaries in a time when they preached to us how the country was broke, that we should live within our means.These people cut everything. They didn’t give a shit who or what they cut.
Sick children, senior citizens were targeted, suicide and mental health programs were targeted, the homeless were targeted. Families were thrown out of their homes and forced to live in hostels alongside drug addicts. That’s if they were lucky.What did the greedy people in power do ? Absolutely fucking nothing. They took token cuts but still left themselves with massive salaries. They gave their friends and family jobs in quangos they set up. They used and abused money donated for charities.
They ensured it was an us and them and then they continued to rape us the citizens of this country to pay for the lifestyle they have come accustomed to.
New taxes were invented and then they preached how because they had them in Europe we should pay. They lied to the people and when the lies wouldn’t wash anymore they resorted to threats and bullying.
I began questioning these peoples. They didn’t like that. My friends protested and those that were unemployed suddenly had their welfare stopped or cut drastically.
Media spun stories about extremists and anarchists yet the real story was people just wanted to live their lives not just exist.These people hatched a plan to force us to pay for water. A substance needed for survival. We stood up to them and eventually inspired others to stand alongside us. So no w they will jail us in the hope it scares everyone to comply.
As far as meter installations are concerned. They’ve taken away all your rights. You are not allowed to refuse, you are not allowed protest and still each day people stand up.
People are no longer afraid, no longer pay attention to the threats made by these bastards.I expect to be in prison on January 31st but I ask each and everyone of you to come to Dublin and make that small sacrifice. Come and stand alongside your country men and women. Make the 31st the largest protest in Irish History.
Do it for your children, your Grandchildren. Do it for those that were forced from this country because of corrupt greedy politicians. Do it for the sick that have been forced to suffer on trolleys for those forced out of their homes. Or just do it for yourself.
January 31st make history make it a day when your grand children learn about it in the history books , you can say I was there when we took back our country from the greedy and the corrupt.”
Derek Byrne on the Niall Boylan show [Classic Hits 4FM] after apologising for using the word midget during an Irish Water protest against President Higgins.
Deputy condemns verbal abuse of president by water charge protesters (RTÉ)
Meanwhile…
Sean O’Rourke
Anti-Irish Water campaigner Jerry Beades appeared on RTÉ RI’s Today with Sean O’Rourke to discuss Irish Water protests against president Higgins.
Sean O’Rourke: “Jerry Beades, good morning to you.”
Jerry Beades: “Good morning, Sean.”
O’Rourke: “I know you are very supportive and you have been active on Water Protests – Are these your people?”
Beades: “No, and I think we’ve seen the politicians there speaking just before for me – and they’re stoking over fire – and I think, they’re taking this totally out of context. I mean, there’s anger on the streets – The President had the option – first of all – and I want to say this, we have to say that we have to respect The Office of the President – that’s the first thing I’d like to say.”
O’Rourke: “…And would you like to start, as well by saying, first off – that you condemn the kind of behaviour that was directed at The Office of The President last Friday?”
Beades: “I want to be very careful Sean, in terms of, you know, in terms of , ‘Who is asking for this condemnation?’. At the moment it’s the politicians. But just let me say…I do not, …or have…
O’Rourke: “…I’m just asking you Gerry, as an Irish citizen – maybe one citizen to another, would you care, or do you think you should condemn that language directed at our Irish First Citizen?”
Beades: “I would say the language is not right – and it should not be used. But, I would want to say that there is anger on the streets, there’s anger about the Water Protests. The president had the option – there were people at the gates petitioning him – no to sign it {The Water Bill} – and refer it to The Supreme Court -he didn’t listen to those people who were at the gates of An Aras an Uachtarain – and you know, anger becomes a policy when the politicians ignore the people. And we have a situation at the moment, that, you know, the Water Protesters – The Government did a complete U-Turn only as a result of protests. We now have have all the evictions in the same way. The President refused to refer the evictions there to The Supreme Court as well. ”
O’Rourke: “Are you seriously suggesting, Jerry, that – had The President referred this to The Supreme Court, and had The Supreme Court had upheld its constitutionality that all the protesters would have just stayed at home and the protesters who remained would simply wave at his car?”
Beades: “I’m not saying that – but I mean there is… The President is elected as champion of the people, I mean he made a lot of promises, he was going to be ‘The People’s President’ – but obviously the people are ignored by the politicians.”
[Later]
Listen here
Ireland’s European Commissioner Phil Hogan
“It was unbelievably arrogant or naïve of the Government to expect the EU Commission to see the so called water conservation grant as anything other than an exchequer transfer.
Calling it a water conservation grant was only likely to deepen the bureaucrats’ suspicions.
If the government’s plans fail the market corporation in test in April, I believe that the Government will then move to get rid of the water conservation grant altogether while pressing ahead with full water charges.
“The whole issue of Water Charges will not go away. The government can still abandon the concept of charging people for the water they drink and instead look at alternative models.
I suspect the EU Commission’s concerns go even deeper than the grant. The message to Brussels should be that the Irish people have rejected water charges and that no tweaking of an accounting trick can change that.”
Sinn Fein TD Pearse Doherty speaking to RTÉ R1’s Morning Ireland earlier responding to reports in the Irish Independent of a confidential report expressing the European Commission’s concerns about irish Water’s finances.
Confidential report reveals European concerns about Irish Water (BreakingNews)
(Laura Hutton/Photocall Ireland)
Gulp.
Jay Horgan tweetz:
This is the colour of the water in Mountmellick [Co Laois] where my Ma lives. No notice about it either. Nice one Irish Water…
Irish Water says it has registered around 760,500 households to date, representing 56.3% of the estimated number liable for water charges. The body says somewhere in the region of 975,000 application packs have been returned so far.
Wait for it…
It said this figure included packs sent back blank or with messages of opposition to the charges, as these were treated as verification of an address and registered to their system as a result.
