( Frank McDonald, Environment Editor of the Irish Times, top, and Jerry Grant, of Irish Water, above)

Irish Water, which was established in March of this year, will take over the responsibility for providing water and waste water treatment from 34 local authorities on a phased basis, starting next January, over the next five years.

After that, Irish Water will be responsible for all water services and all capital and investment decisions regarding Ireland’s water infrastructure.

Last night Jerry Grant, head of asset management at Irish Water, and Frank McDonald, Environment Editor with The Irish Times, appeared with host Robert Shortt on Prime Time to talk about the future of Irish Water, in the context of the current water shortages being experienced in Dublin, Kildare and Wicklow.

Frank McDonald: “It has to be remembered that water, OK, we think of Ireland as having loads of loads of water. It falls out of the sky every day nearly. But the truth of the matter is that that’s just raw water. The water has to be treated. We also have to deal with sewage and treat that as well. So, you know, all of that will require money and a huge new revenue stream will be the water rates that we’re going to have to start paying, I think from next year onwards. And I think it’s very ironic that just at the point at which water rates are finally being introduced which, in my view, are completely justified, the responsibility for water is being whipped off the local authorities and transferred to a new semi-State company, in a further move to centralise and already highly-centralised…”

Robert Shortt: “Why is that not a good idea, given that the record or local authorities in managing water assets is, at best, patchy?”

McDonald: “Well, I think that you have to look at it in context. I mean Jerry referred to the history of underinvestment. There has been a history of underinvestment. And there’s a whole lot of plans that exist, that haven’t actually been implemented because there wasn’t the money to pay for them. And I think that obviously, one of the major things that Irish Water is going to have to fastrack now which is basically the plan that has been kicking around now for the last eight years or so, which is to take water from the River Shannon and bring it to Dublin. Now, that sounds like a smash and grab raid by the capital on another part of rural Ireland. But in fact it isn’t really because what would happen is the water would be siphoned out of the Shannon, taken to a reservoir in the Midlands and then from there transferred to Dublin to the treatment plant.”

Shortt: “That’s a big project and we’ll get to that in a minute but if I could just go back to the restaurateur in Tanya Sillems’ report. There’s been a lot of talk about compensation for water users who experience a problem in their supply. Does Irish Water have any worked out policy, when you’ll be running as a commercial company, what will you say to business owners when, for whatever reason in the future, the water supply isn’t there. And, indeed, the homeowners who are going to be paying water charges?”

Jerry Grant: “Well first of all, of course we’re acutely responsible, conscious of the consumers of water. And, again, in the criticality of water to everyday life and to all kinds of activities that was eminently clear..”

Shortt: “Will you give them compensation if the water is not delivered?”

Grant: “First of all, for us, the important thing is a secure revenue stream. The regulator, the CER, will have a very strict regime of supervision of us and we’ll certainly make sure that we meet certain service standards and will certainly take money from us if we don’t meet those standards. In the first instance…”

Shortt: “So, is that a ‘yes’ then?”

Grant: “It’s a matter for the regulator ultimately as to how that protection to the consumer is catered for. But the really important point is that we have a secure, sustainable and adequate revenue stream, to leverage the investment we need. The major scheme for Dublin has been talked about but we have much more than that.”

Shortt: “So where is the money going to come from?”

Grant: “Well, clearly, as I said we have to establish our revenue stream. I would refer to some of the comments Frank made in relation to the local authorities and to make the point, that it is clear that it is not possible to finance all the things that need to be done on an authority by authority basis. We must have a national asset management approach…”

Shortt: “Sorry, what does that mean? Does that mean you’re going to borrow money?

Grant: “Well it does, yes.”

Shortt: “Because presumably you’re not going to get all the investment you need from the water rates that are coming in on the water charges.”

Grant: “No. We have a significant deficit to make up. We have to understand the risks and clearly there are risks, there are unacceptable levels of risk of failure in both water supply and waste water. We have to understand those. We have to stretch the revenues that will be available to us, to do the most we can, across the country so that everybody has an equal chance, of having an acceptable water supply and waste water. But yes we will have to borrow money and we can only do that credibly when we have a, first of all, an organisation that is seen to be in control of the service, that’s seen to know what it’s about and has a secure revenue base on which to leverage that borrowing.”

Shortt: “Frank McDonald, is that the advantage of Irish Water? That you have this big organisation that has, you know, some punching power, that it can borrow in ways that the local authorities couldn’t? Would you accept that there’s a good idea from that point of view?”

McDonald: “I think that’s fundamentally the reason why it’s being set up, is to provide an organisation into which money can be funnelled, through public private partnership schemes and other stuff like that. I mean for example that idea of taking water from the Shannon to Dublin is clearly a big PPP project possibility and that’s the most likely way it will be procured. So it would be procured, in effect, at no expense to the State, to the Exchequer. It will be procured on the basis of private sector investment but with the control over the asset being maintained by the semi-State company Irish Water.”

Later

Shortt: “Those glossy TV ads, how much did they cost?”

Grant: “I have no idea but they’re part of the project of converting the consumers of water in Ireland to customers. I think we have a very real difficulty in…”

Shortt: “I think will people be very, very keenly aware that they’re going to be paying water charges next year, they might get a little bit irate seeing these ads for water on a night when they can’t even make a cup of tea.”

Grant: “I think it is an incredibly important message we have to deliver that Irish Water is on the pitch to serve the people of Ireland and to deliver for them, now and into the future. We expect, in our recovery in the Irish economy, we know for experience when recovery comes, demand for water will grow, we must be able to meet that. And we have the raw water resources to do that.”

Shortt: “Finally, very briefly Frank, are you convinced? Will Irish Water work?”

McDonald: “I think it may work. But I think that if people are going to be paying water charges for their water they will want to be supplied with water. And they won’t be prepared to accept any excuse for not supplying it.”

What could possibly go wrong?

Watch in full here